Clerical rogue challenge - full caster progression

[Storm Munin]

How would you make the most SA, skill point and bluff skill for a full caster cleric (CL30, 9th circle spells), with the prestige class Assassin being banned?
Scoundrel style, not killer/avenger.


Arguably there are these to consider:
Cleric, Rogue, Hierophant

Cleric, Rogue, BFZ, Hierophant (33% less skill point gain from 8 BFZ levels, then just going 7 rogue levels)

Cleric, Rogue, Guild thief, Hierophant (Another way of loosing skill points, gaining 1 feat)

Cleric, Divine Seeker, Guild Thief, Hierophant (1d6 SA and Evasion killed in the attempt)

Cleric, Guild thief, Whirling Dervish, Hierophant (1d6 SA killed in the attempt)


So, how would you choose to get the most scoundrel out of a clerical build?

/M

[Kiran]

I can think of some builds with CL 27-28... but 30 and... better/sameish to a mage variant currently?

Now I want to try...

[Storm Munin]

Full caster rakish wizard gets at least 7d6 SA, you cannot compete with a divine class there.

[Steve]

So, how would you choose to get the most scoundrel out of a clerical build?

/M

By not requiring CL 30. You didn't mention whether the build needs any mechanical melee prowess...though any Cleric build essentially gains that via spells.

I'm tempted to say that Spirit Shaman is better, with Cleric and Rogue dip, maybe SS / Cleric / Hierophant / Whirling Dervish. If you wanted to focus on non-HiPS sneak.

You can also go Cleric 9 / Hierophant 10 / Rogue 11, for CL 26.

Essentially you're limiting to a base of Cleric 13 / Hierophant 10 / X-Class/PrC 7, which can be split 4/3 if desired. But you have to ask which aspect—mechanical or RP—you wish to boost in these dip(s).

[Storm Munin]

Well, if you want to be tied down like that Steve:
Mechanical aim would be lots of skill points combined with full cleric caster progression and ninth level spells.
Bluff and disguising slightly more important then skulking, but skulking proficiency are a requirement.
Mundane melee or ranged damage essentially unimportant.
Nor are HIPS (a detestable, if useful, feat anyway).

RP aim would be a cleric coming off as a rogue.


Divine casters really are at a major disadvantage in comparison to arcanists when trying to make a shifty caster character.
But maybe someone can come up with something clever, thus the thread.

[Aurali]

Due to hierophant requiring 13 full caster levels and the 3 before 20 rule, only the first two builds would actually be legal here. If you are going with 4 classes, two of which are cleric and hierophant, one of the other two must be a spellcasting progression class with the progression coming on an odd number. For instance, hospitaler would not work since it progresses on even levels so you couldn't quite fit it in to get lvl 7 spells and have 3 before 20.

Given that, I would go with 12 cleric/3 rogue/9 BFZ/6 hierophant or 13 cleric/7 rogue/10 hierophant. The C/R/BFZ/H build has 1 more SA, poison use, 2 fire damage, and immunity to fear but has to take iron will and all 3 spellpower hierophant abilities. The C/R/H only has 6 more skill points overall, uncanny dodge and can choose 2 extra hierophant abilities besides the 3 spellpower. I think both builds have their merits if you want full lvl 30 caster levels.

[Theodore01]

Wait, there was talk of improving BFZ a year before. Any update here ?

Hidden: show

Rasael wrote:
From what I can tell it may have become generally accessible post 3.5 edition. I don't know how the class is in our timeline and whether or not its only for Kossuth or also for other deities.

Eitherway, we are all onboard with the changes then?
Quote: 7/10 progression, D4 fire damage, free dimension door 3/day

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=48898&start=15

[Steve]

Cleric 11 / Hierophant 10 / Master of Disguise 5 / Rogue 4 ?

Worship Leira and take Illusion and Trickery domains. With Illusion, you can combine spell-focused disguise from Cleric with "natural" abilities of Master of Disguise. Skill points are still an issue though, cause both Cleric and Hiero gimp Skills. CL would be 28, which is 5% Gr. Dispel chance?!?

What just gets my goat about this challenge is the Cleric spellbook—it ain't helping your roguish wishes.

Essentially, you're developing the need for a new PrC: The Divine Trickster! lol.

[Zanniej]

Or perhaps you could go the "tinkering rogue" route, and combine Cleric / Techsmith ( technical knack ) / rogue / hierophant.

But that wouldn't be too high on social skills, nor SA.

So I guess with your specific requirements Cleric 12 / Rogue 3 / FBZ 9 / Hierophant 6 would be the best fit, netting you +5d6 SA and 30 CL I believe.

[Valefort]

That ? http://nwn2db.com/build/?256755

[Zanniej]

That ? http://nwn2db.com/build/?256755

Won't that reach CL 29?
4 levels rogue and 4 non-caster levels BFZ = CL 22. Practiced spellcaster makes it 24, and hierophant spellpower +3 makes it 29.

[Storm Munin]

Master of disguise class are basically worthless, the feats you gain for free on it are general feats any class can take.

Divine trickster would be awesome.

IMHO

/M

[thids]

Can't be done properly, needs better PRC's with divine spellcasting + SA progression than the utterly horrid BFZ. I mean, you can make a sneak with low SA and a divine spellbook, but that's in the realm of making a pure wizard wielding a long sword and calling him a long sword wielding wizard. Doesn't make the wizard any good at wielding the long sword.

[Valefort]

That ? http://nwn2db.com/build/?256755

Won't that reach CL 29?
4 levels rogue and 4 non-caster levels BFZ = CL 22. Practiced spellcaster makes it 24, and hierophant spellpower +3 makes it 29.

Oh right, the last rogue level can be a cleric one easily enough.

[Kiran]

Maybe some things were never meant to be !