Paladin Prestige Class Questions

[ARHicks00]

Will the Paladin get their prestige classes implemented in the game anytime soon?

http://nwn2db.com/library/classes/?137

http://nwn2db.com/library/classes/?154

I know the Champion of the Silverflame SR can't be added, but you can still everything else right?

[Theodore01]

these are ingame:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=54229&start=15

[ARHicks00]

these are ingame:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=54229&start=15

So if I cross-class Cavalier and Divinate, I would essentially lose all the abilities that make one a paladin? But this doesn't answer my question about the two other prestige classes I mentioned.

[Valefort]

Answer is : unlikely.

[mrm3ntalist]

these are ingame:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=54229&start=15

So if I cross-class Cavalier and Divinate, I would essentially lose all the abilities that make one a paladin? But this doesn't answer my question about the two other prestige classes I mentioned.

You can only take one kit. It is either Cavalier or Divinate, not both.

[ARHicks00]

You can only take one kit. It is either Cavalier or Divinate, not both.

LOL! Gotcha! For a minute there, I thought you can become a paladin-less paladin.

The only viable prestige class is Divinate because you can still function without Smite Evil since there are no prestige classes that allow progression in Smite Evil (or Good) and Aura of Courage since Lionheart/Against Evil spell does the same thing. How does the kit work?

[mrm3ntalist]

You can only take one kit. It is either Cavalier or Divinate, not both.

LOL! Gotcha! For a minute there, I thought you can become a paladin-less paladin.

The only viable prestige class is Divinate because you can still function without Smite Evil since there are no prestige classes that allow progression in Smite Evil (or Good) and Aura of Courage since Lionheart/Against Evil spell does the same thing. How does the kit work?

For me Cavalier works as well. Able to Solo most epic content and the build has many abilities - Imp Knockdown, Shield Slam with a 34(?) DC, 36STR close to 60AC, 42AB, Evasion, 28CL.

The damage from divine might which bypasses DR is missed against a couple of bosses but nothing critical.

[ARHicks00]

You can only take one kit. It is either Cavalier or Divinate, not both.

LOL! Gotcha! For a minute there, I thought you can become a paladin-less paladin.

The only viable prestige class is Divinate because you can still function without Smite Evil since there are no prestige classes that allow progression in Smite Evil (or Good) and Aura of Courage since Lionheart/Against Evil spell does the same thing. How does the kit work?

For me Cavalier works as well. Able to Solo most epic content and the build has many abilities - Imp Knockdown, Shield Slam with a 34(?) DC, 36STR close to 60AC, 42AB, Evasion, 28CL.

The damage from divine might which bypasses DR is missed against a couple of bosses but nothing critical.

A paladin's buffs already allow you to bypass DR. (even if the DR does not have an enchantment requirement) Divine Might/EDM allows you to mega damage on top of the buff damage. Pure Paladins do 100ish damage/critical (not counting smite evil) and 50 to 60ish against non-critical opponents with the option to still turn dead. While combat utility is nice, Pommel, and Aid/defend other feats are all the combat utility you need in my opinion. Multi-classing actually causes their dps to drop, but adds more venues to play the class in different ways.

[mrm3ntalist]

A paladin's buffs already allow you to bypass DR. (even if the DR does not have a enchantment requirement) Divine Might/EDM allows you to mega damage on top of the buff damage.

There are 4 spells ( Lawful Sword, Holy sword, Bless Weapon and Divine Favor if i remember correctly ) with damage that bypasses DR. All these spells have short durations and at most you are going to have 1 casting of them. For me, that is not enough and Divine Might helps in that category. As i before, it is not critical and can do without.

Pure Paladins do 100ish damage/critical (not counting smite evil) and 50 to 60ish against non-critical opponents with the option to still turn dead. While combat utility is nice, Pommel, and Aid/defend other feats are all the combat utility you need in my opinion. Multi-classing actually causes their dps to drop, but adds more venues to play the class in different ways.

A paladin can get those numbers but not all the time. Going through an Area ( Graypeaks for example ) you have to go through many tough mobs, casters etc. Imp. Knockdonwn and Shiled slam are good disables allowing you to have a round of free attacks, if successful. Those kind of feats are what give durability to a build in high CR and long areas.

[ARHicks00]

There are 4 spells ( Lawful Sword, Holy sword, Bless Weapon and Divine Favor if i remember correctly ) with damage that bypasses DR. All these spells have short durations and at most you are going to have 1 casting of them. For me, that is not enough.

I'm referring to bypassing DR through pure damage. Paladin's beat opponent by overwhelming them with stacked amage. Paladins are better off getting a mundane weapon with elemental damage than a +5 as they can add that one with spells.

A paladin can get those numbers but not all the time. Going through an Area ( Graypeaks for example ) you have to go through many tough mobs, casters etc. Imp. Knockdonwn and Shiled slam are good disables allowing you to have a round of free attacks, if successful. Those kind of feats are what give durability to a build in high CR and long areas.

I wasn't saying combat utility wasn't need, but if you have EDM (20 damage holy damage with buffs/gear) and you critical hit a lot, (you're doing 40 damage and that's not counting everything else) the mobs are not a problem. Divine Favor (3), Sanctity Strikes (2), 30 strength (+10), +5 Great Weapon enchantment/Lawful Sword, Holy sword (5), 30 Charisma (20 with EDM) and you're doing a guarantee 50 damage sold. (not counting smites and other buff damage)

Again, I understand the AC and need to knockdown, but you should be able to plow through the enemies with the right spells just the same. A pure paladin can get 50 AB to 53 AB depending on their race and build. (60 AB to 63 AB with smite)

[mrm3ntalist]

I'm referring to bypassing DR through pure damage. Paladin's beat opponent by overwhelming them with stacked amage. Paladins are better off getting a mundane weapon with elemental damage than a +5 as they can add that one with spells.

What you say is true. However, the spells dont last long enough and only have one casting of each. There is no way to maintain that high damage through an epic area, just from spells. To put it in perspective, when against the Balor even if you save all your spells for him and use extend, they are going to run out before you will manage to kill him.

To get to the balor you will have to go through Fire giants meleers and casters, Elementals and Hell hounds.

I wasn't saying combat utility wasn't need, but if you have EDM (20 damage holy damage with buffs/gear) and you critical hit a lot, (you're doing 40 damage and that's not counting everything else) the mobs are not a problem.

EDM helps. There is no arguing there. EDM is totally different than knockdown and shield slam. The first increases your damage output but you are still going to get attacked, get damaged. The latter however, disable your opponent for a round, giving a round of attacks and taking none. Timing it correctly you can get your opponent disabled every 2 out of 3 rounds - if the DCs are made and if the mobs arent immune to it - saving your spells and EDM uses for when needed the most.

Anyway, a paladin can work even if build very differently and thats the beauty of this base class. I was just mentioning that Cavalier does work - for me it works better than the divinate.

[Kiran]

You can only take one kit. It is either Cavalier or Divinate, not both.

LOL! Gotcha! For a minute there, I thought you can become a paladin-less paladin.

The only viable prestige class is Divinate because you can still function without Smite Evil since there are no prestige classes that allow progression in Smite Evil (or Good) and Aura of Courage since Lionheart/Against Evil spell does the same thing. How does the kit work?

For me Cavalier works as well. Able to Solo most epic content and the build has many abilities - Imp Knockdown, Shield Slam with a 34(?) DC, 36STR close to 60AC, 42AB, Evasion, 28CL.

The damage from divine might which bypasses DR is missed against a couple of bosses but nothing critical.

Is there a place to see the Cavalier class and what they can do? Nothing on Wiki that I can find

[ARHicks00]

I'm referring to bypassing DR through pure damage. Paladin's beat opponent by overwhelming them with stacked amage. Paladins are better off getting a mundane weapon with elemental damage than a +5 as they can add that one with spells.

What you say is true. However, the spells dont last long enough and only have one casting of each. There is no way to maintain that high damage through an epic area, just from spells. To put it in perspective, when against the Balor even if you save all your spells for him and use extend, they are going to run out before you will manage to kill him.

To get to the balor you will have to go through Fire giants meleers and casters, Elementals and Hell hounds.

I wasn't saying combat utility wasn't need, but if you have EDM (20 damage holy damage with buffs/gear) and you critical hit a lot, (you're doing 40 damage and that's not counting everything else) the mobs are not a problem.

EDM helps. There is no arguing there. EDM is totally different than knockdown and shield slam. The first increases your damage output but you are still going to get attacked, get damaged. The latter however, disable your opponent for a round, giving a round of attacks and taking none. Timing it correctly you can get your opponent disabled every 2 out of 3 rounds - if the DCs are made and if the mobs arent immune to it - saving your spells and EDM uses for when needed the most.

Anyway, a paladin can work even if build very differently and thats the beauty of this base class. I was just mentioning that Cavalier does work - for me it works better than the divinate.

Highest AC in a standard server is 54 from a build with tumble, two AC feats, full enchantments, and can wear fullplate armor. (My fighter/rogue) and if you are worrying about hitting something then I suggest playing a pure fighter, bard, cleric with persistent spell, or a weapon master build. Anything with an AB over 39 is not worth doing a quest over even if you are level 30. (Or have defensive spells for that matter)

I am not being harsh but a paladin is like a Jedi in which you a fight down quickly. Paladin where built for short quests, not long ones.

[mrm3ntalist]

Highest AC in a standard server is 54 from a build with tumble, two AC feats, full enchantments, and can wear fullplate armor.

What about ICE and Toweshield? Wont that get you an AC higher of 54? It does.

(My fighter/rogue) and if you are worrying about hitting something then I suggest playing a pure fighter, bard, cleric with persistent spell, or a weapon master build. Anything with an AB over 39 is not worth doing a quest over even if you are level 30. (Or have defensive spells for that matter)

I am not being harsh but a paladin is like a Jedi in which you a fight down quickly. Paladin where built for short quests, not long ones.

I dont understand what you are trying to say here, but probably that is my issue. There are differents values of "minimum" AC on this server depending on the build.. A cavalies will have more AB in most of the cases, compared to an EDM pally because EDM have to invest on both STR and CHA abilities.

[ARHicks00]

What about ICE and Toweshield? Wont that get you an AC higher of 54? It does.

54 AC is with Tower Shield. ICE puts it at 57 so my guess is you have extra spells or feats that allow you to retain that AC. I think my point is that a high AC can be bad because a prolong fight leads to a dead paladin. (or character in general) I've tested this many many times and the higher your AC, the more likely the enemy NPCs will roll higher numbers.

I dont understand what you are trying to say here, but probably that is my issue. There are differents values of "minimum" AC on this server depending on the build.. A cavalies will have more AB in most of the cases, compared to an EDM pally because EDM have to invest on both STR and CHA abilities.

Considering your max STR is 36 and a EDM is 30, the difference is +3 points so you are looking at 51 to 53 AB vs 54 to 56 AB? No, but what I'm trying to say is a Paladin should not be doing long quest as they weren't geared for that.