Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Ok, it's been a while that I've been considering this, because I hate to do it. But, here are my reasons for recommending that drow be application only.

1. Showing proper understanding of Lore of the UD.
-Too many players play the UD, and just "red light" any rp they don't enjoy. The UD isn't a place filled with flowers and candy and hugs. It's a place where you look at someone slightly wrong, and find a dagger in your back. The RP out of PVP that you've done something wrong and don't even realize you've done in the UD makes our PC's often behave ooc'ly. Sshamath is your safe place, outside of it no one else is.

2. Desire to be inactive with the community.
-The UD is a smaller community, and we need active players to play the UD who are interested in it. While I don't personally mind players going to the surface, or branching off, I think that at a low level you should have to participate in the community and be active. If at higher levels you go to the surface- fine. But at least experience the difficulties and harsh RP that is the reality that makes up the UD.

3. Player base support/maturity.
- We need players who are generally more mature, or ok with the RP. We have a lot of unhappy endings, that players need to drive on with the community and roll with when things get crappy. It takes a higher level of tolerance and patience, but it is definitely worth it.

I'm sure there are plenty more reasons, feel free to post for/against it below.

Luv you israe. Sadly I must disagree with an application only. The reason is that playing a drow is how you learn how to play a drow. I am a newbie concerning drow. What I do know I learned by playing in the ud. It is the possible to teach someone without forcing the player to spend weeks reading outside source material. That is just my two cents worth.

Ye... you learn by doing...

Application only makes UD even more empty.

You can't expect every player to know everything from the get-go. I certainly didn't, when I started RPing. People learn, and as mentioned, people learn from RPing and talking to other players. You can learn by delving into source but:
a) Not everyone can learn this way.
b) Practical experience is a better teacher.

You can't really red-light RP on this server. True, they can leave if the RP doesn't suit them. But, there are consequences for that in game, as well. If a character, for example, decides to leave after being captured you can contact the DMs. Or (if that proves fruitless), RP they escaped and set a bounty on their head so that players go after them. What-ever best suits the situation.

And, yes. App only will make the underdark very empty, very fast. If that is the goal, you'll certainly succeed in it.

As for player maturity, that is harder to enforce. The best thing to do for that, is to make it clear that a adult level of maturity is expected for the server. That is really impossible with the teen rating though, since children can't be expected to have that level of maturity. Because of the teen rating, we are all allowed (and indeed, expected) to have a child's (teenager's) level of maturity. Which is quite silly, really. So, as long as that rule is a thing, expected player maturity will always be compromised.

The above would actually be more helpful than stripping it away from people all together.

You don't need a complete understanding of the UD to play, just a basis. I'd like to see that players aren't going to come to UD and get upset, or mad that the female is treating them badly. As it stands I'm active in the UD, but very skeptical of things I'm seeing. I'll be submitting a whole write up about the UD and ideas towards improving it, but in the meantime I'm asking for the application for intents instead of the risk involved in letting random players play drow. I'm always up for teaching new players and helping, but to increase the player population we need DM, and competent ud players

No option to remove all drow? I call shenanigans

As I've said before in argument against applications, many core things require just as much knowledge. Druid, Cleric, Paladin, Harper Agent, Warlock, Divine Champions, and to a lesser extend Favored Souls, Spirit Shamans, and Daggerspell Mages. Just to name a few examples. Not to mention races such as Sun Elves (who often don't adventure often, and really aren't all that kind to none elves), Orcs (who are fairly savage and not all that lovey-dovey), Deep Gnomes (who are reclusive by nature and shun other societies), and the like.

If we made applications for everything that required a bit of background knowledge, much of the server's content would be app only. We should focus more on teaching players, and less on restricting players (and turning players off or making them more apprehensive).

Plus, applications are more work for the staff and that time can be spent on more important things (events, updates, etc). Its an all-around bad idea.

If players are getting OOCly upset by IC events, guess what? We can ignore them (there is even a provision under the rules that deals with this, called harassment). We can tell them to familiarize themselves with lore. We can point them in the right directions, even. Its totally optional to deal with people's OOC BS. If you choose to, that is on you.

Voted no, I hope to see it thrive under new opportunities coming for it this year.

Aspect of Sorrow wrote:Voted no, I hope to see it thrive under new opportunities coming for it this year.

Spoilers please.

UD erased, Vhaeraunite enclaves on the surface. There, I fixed the eternal drow problem.

Sorry lolthites, not sorry.

The Whistler wrote:UD erased, Vhaeraunite enclaves on the surface. There, I fixed the eternal drow problem.

Sorry lolthites, not sorry.

Sounds good to me.

I disagree with application only for reasons already stated.

I had some thoughts and responded to your initial post Israe but its specifically targeted at you or meant to be personal. Only observations from a new player to the UD.

Israe wrote:1. Showing proper understanding of Lore of the UD.
-Too many players play the UD, and just "red light" any rp they don't enjoy. The UD isn't a place filled with flowers and candy and hugs. It's a place where you look at someone slightly wrong, and find a dagger in your back. The RP out of PVP that you've done something wrong and don't even realize you've done in the UD makes our PC's often behave ooc'ly. Sshamath is your safe place, outside of it no one else is.

RP is a two way street. If someone doesn't enjoy the RP it shouldn't be forced on them, nor should they be told to suck it up. People play this game for fun and enjoyment, as long as server rules are followed, they are allowed to disagree with the direction of RP if it doesn't suit their tastes. In adversarial RP, respect for the player behind the character is important.

Is adversarial RP = PvP?
I don't think so. But I see many believing that. I don't think jumping straight to PvP allows for a sustainable community in the UD. IMO it seems more fun to maintain a nemesis and cause trouble for them another way (and be the recipient of trouble). More story to it than a 6 second struggle.

Israe wrote:2. Desire to be inactive with the community.
-The UD is a smaller community, and we need active players to play the UD who are interested in it. While I don't personally mind players going to the surface, or branching off, I think that at a low level you should have to participate in the community and be active. If at higher levels you go to the surface- fine. But at least experience the difficulties and harsh RP that is the reality that makes up the UD.

Work towards making others perceive the UD as an interesting place. My first experiences of UD consisted of other characters either threatening the 'fresh meat' or sticking their nose in the air and pretending to be better (IE ignoring my character). Maybe this is what those characters would do but then I see posts about that the UD community is small and its difficult to find RP. Not all encounters have been like that, but it doesn't make it an enticing place. This is more an observation. I perceive there to be a lack of something to draw others in.

Its easy to get defensive about it and say that drow aren't cuddly teddy bears. But there aren't just two extreme sides. I'd prefer there to be more tense back and forth, layered up even in false politeness. Why? Because when a character encounters another drow, its reasonable to test them out a bit first. Its not known who is backing that other drow (or orc or whatever). Their power is unknown. Especially with drow involved in politics. They can be weak physically but be able to pull strings. Interacting with other (new) UD-characters with the reason of testing them out can be a way to invite RP and make it more exciting, rather than threaten with PvP.

Glowfire wrote:I disagree with application only for reasons already stated.

I had some thoughts and responded to your initial post Israe but its specifically targeted at you or meant to be personal. Only observations from a new player to the UD.

Israe wrote:1. Showing proper understanding of Lore of the UD.
-Too many players play the UD, and just "red light" any rp they don't enjoy. The UD isn't a place filled with flowers and candy and hugs. It's a place where you look at someone slightly wrong, and find a dagger in your back. The RP out of PVP that you've done something wrong and don't even realize you've done in the UD makes our PC's often behave ooc'ly. Sshamath is your safe place, outside of it no one else is.

RP is a two way street. If someone doesn't enjoy the RP it shouldn't be forced on them, nor should they be told to suck it up. People play this game for fun and enjoyment, as long as server rules are followed, they are allowed to disagree with the direction of RP if it doesn't suit their tastes. In adversarial RP, respect for the player behind the character is important.

Is adversarial RP = PvP?
I don't think so. But I see many believing that. I don't think jumping straight to PvP allows for a sustainable community in the UD. IMO it seems more fun to maintain a nemesis and cause trouble for them another way (and be the recipient of trouble). More story to it than a 6 second struggle.

Israe wrote:2. Desire to be inactive with the community.
-The UD is a smaller community, and we need active players to play the UD who are interested in it. While I don't personally mind players going to the surface, or branching off, I think that at a low level you should have to participate in the community and be active. If at higher levels you go to the surface- fine. But at least experience the difficulties and harsh RP that is the reality that makes up the UD.

Work towards making others perceive the UD as an interesting place. My first experiences of UD consisted of other characters either threatening the 'fresh meat' or sticking their nose in the air and pretending to be better (IE ignoring my character). Maybe this is what those characters would do but then I see posts about that the UD community is small and its difficult to find RP. Not all encounters have been like that, but it doesn't make it an enticing place. This is more an observation. I perceive there to be a lack of something to draw others in.

Its easy to get defensive about it and say that drow aren't cuddly teddy bears. But there aren't just two extreme sides. I'd prefer there to be more tense back and forth, layered up even in false politeness. Why? Because when a character encounters another drow, its reasonable to test them out a bit first. Its not known who is backing that other drow (or orc or whatever). Their power is unknown. Especially with drow involved in politics. They can be weak physically but be able to pull strings. Interacting with other (new) UD-characters with the reason of testing them out can be a way to invite RP and make it more exciting, rather than threaten with PvP.

A smart spider would bow/kneel to there 'supiriors' that threaten them with pvp so that he can deal with them when he is ready for it and has the upper hand.

The Whistler wrote:UD erased, Vhaeraunite enclaves on the surface. There, I fixed the eternal drow problem.

Sorry lolthites, not sorry.

Best solution. Might not sit well with those in the community who enjoy domination, seduction or light bdsm RP (within some limits of course) though.