Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I'm building a rabid half-drow who's an arcane assassin, for the MOTB campaign -- and for here too, if it works.

I'm sure your insight will prove invaluable here... I'm trying to figure out the synergies between supreme invisibility, shape changing (the spell. Shapesomething) and rage, if any exists.

Then there's the issue of whether invest in the three feats that give a +2 to W/R/F saves, or in a weapon specialization. His R/W are very poor.

...Do prodigious spellcasting and practiced spellcaster stack, or do they simply not cover similar areas?

And, let's say the character is strong. How does that influence the sort of weapon I should use? I'd rather keep my dagger anyhow.

Thank you all in advance, have a great day and night.

I'll try to give a bit of feedback on what appear to be different questions...

pulvasur wrote:I'm building a rabid half-drow who's an arcane assassin, for the MOTB campaign -- and for here too, if it works.

Just about anything will work for the OC and MoTB...Not necessarily the case on the server. However, Arcane Assassin can be done a number of ways. W/A/EK/AT is something I am currently playing with a full drow. It has the weakness of only reaching CL25, but it get's HiPS, 8d6 sneak/death attack dice. Decent death attack DC due to semi-high INT and is essentially the equivalent of a Fighter / Mage / Thief. However, from a leveling perspective it is really just a WEAK gish until ~level 15 and doesn't really become what it is supposed to be until mid-epics. Get's HiPS at about level 24 and 9th level spells at 26. Could get 9th level spells sooner, but then HiPS later, depending on how you want to go. Another option, which would get higher CL, but lower sneak dice and no HiPS would be to go W6/R4/EK10/AT10. BAB 21, CL29, 5d6 SA dice. Instead of using HiPS you would use summons to allow you to flank enemies.

pulvasur wrote:I'm trying to figure out the synergies between supreme invisibility, shape changing (the spell. Shapesomething) and rage, if any exists.

I'm going to assume you mean Hide in Plain Sight, Shapechange and Rage, as in some kind of Barbarian/Assassin/Wizard type of build. I think the synergies would be very little. First off, your caster level is going to suffer big time if you want anything decent from rage and second, the physical stats from Shapechange supplant your base stats, mix in the hard cap of +12 to any one stat and I don't think you will see much benefit from this. I hav, en't tested it though, so feel free to make a build in JEGS and let us know how it does. I'm going to guess that at most level ranges it will under-perform...

pulvasur wrote:Then there's the issue of whether invest in the three feats that give a +2 to W/R/F saves, or in a weapon specialization. His R/W are very poor.

At least for Reflex, I would not invest. Depending on how much Arcane caster levels you are going to get, you'll have +6 to all saves from Superior Resistance. In addition, 30 Spellcraft = +6 to saves vs. spells. Depending on the build there are probably more important feats to take. In any case I would definitely prioritize Fortitude and Will over reflex most of the time.

pulvasur wrote:...Do prodigious spellcasting and practiced spellcaster stack, or do they simply not cover similar areas?

Practiced Spell caster will give up to +4 Caster Levels, but will not exceed Character Levels. The first level feat you can take, Spellcasting Prodigy adds +1 DC based on your primary casting stat (so treat INT as +2 for purposes of DC's for Wizard).

pulvasur wrote:And, let's say the character is strong. How does that influence the sort of weapon I should use? I'd rather keep my dagger anyhow.

A strong character should use a weapon that can be used by two hands, a dagger cannot. Daggers are going to be relatively weak unless you are two-weapon fighting and have sneak attack damage. Not saying you can't do it, but you should not expect strong results from an idea that goes against the grain of how the game mechanics are designed.


Hope this helps... Honestly your ideas lack synergy and just don't appear to be moving towards having a viable character for the server. As I said, just about anything can work for MoTB, but even there I think this will struggle more than most builds due to the lack of any focus and going against the grain in so many ways. Since OC dispels are based on character level your spells should be somewhat effective as buffs, but since you are going STR based I don't think prodigy is going to help you (your DC's aren't going to be good). I would have to see the actual build plan to provide anything more specific than this, but I doubt you'd be pleased with the feedback as everything I've stated leans toward your build idea being relatively ineffective.

chad878262 wrote:I'll try to give a bit of feedback on what appear to be different questions...

pulvasur wrote:I'm building a rabid half-drow who's an arcane assassin, for the MOTB campaign -- and for here too, if it works.

Just about anything will work for the OC and MoTB...Not necessarily the case on the server. However, Arcane Assassin can be done a number of ways. W/A/EK/AT is something I am currently playing with a full drow. It has the weakness of only reaching CL25, but it get's HiPS, 8d6 sneak/death attack dice. Decent death attack DC due to semi-high INT and is essentially the equivalent of a Fighter / Mage / Thief. However, from a leveling perspective it is really just a WEAK gish until ~level 15 and doesn't really become what it is supposed to be until mid-epics. Get's HiPS at about level 24 and 9th level spells at 26. Could get 9th level spells sooner, but then HiPS later, depending on how you want to go. Another option, which would get higher CL, but lower sneak dice and no HiPS would be to go W6/R4/EK10/AT10. BAB 21, CL29, 5d6 SA dice. Instead of using HiPS you would use summons to allow you to flank enemies.

pulvasur wrote:I'm trying to figure out the synergies between supreme invisibility, shape changing (the spell. Shapesomething) and rage, if any exists.

I'm going to assume you mean Hide in Plain Sight, Shapechange and Rage, as in some kind of Barbarian/Assassin/Wizard type of build. I think the synergies would be very little. First off, your caster level is going to suffer big time if you want anything decent from rage and second, the physical stats from Shapechange supplant your base stats, mix in the hard cap of +12 to any one stat and I don't think you will see much benefit from this. I hav, en't tested it though, so feel free to make a build in JEGS and let us know how it does. I'm going to guess that at most level ranges it will under-perform...

pulvasur wrote:Then there's the issue of whether invest in the three feats that give a +2 to W/R/F saves, or in a weapon specialization. His R/W are very poor.

At least for Reflex, I would not invest. Depending on how much Arcane caster levels you are going to get, you'll have +6 to all saves from Superior Resistance. In addition, 30 Spellcraft = +6 to saves vs. spells. Depending on the build there are probably more important feats to take. In any case I would definitely prioritize Fortitude and Will over reflex most of the time.

pulvasur wrote:...Do prodigious spellcasting and practiced spellcaster stack, or do they simply not cover similar areas?

Practiced Spell caster will give up to +4 Caster Levels, but will not exceed Character Levels. The first level feat you can take, Spellcasting Prodigy adds +1 DC based on your primary casting stat (so treat INT as +2 for purposes of DC's for Wizard).

pulvasur wrote:And, let's say the character is strong. How does that influence the sort of weapon I should use? I'd rather keep my dagger anyhow.

A strong character should use a weapon that can be used by two hands, a dagger cannot. Daggers are going to be relatively weak unless you are two-weapon fighting and have sneak attack damage. Not saying you can't do it, but you should not expect strong results from an idea that goes against the grain of how the game mechanics are designed.


Hope this helps... Honestly your ideas lack synergy and just don't appear to be moving towards having a viable character for the server. As I said, just about anything can work for MoTB, but even there I think this will struggle more than most builds due to the lack of any focus and going against the grain in so many ways. Since OC dispels are based on character level your spells should be somewhat effective as buffs, but since you are going STR based I don't think prodigy is going to help you (your DC's aren't going to be good). I would have to see the actual build plan to provide anything more specific than this, but I doubt you'd be pleased with the feedback as everything I've stated leans toward your build idea being relatively ineffective.

Well that´s actually even good news, fun is the only way of building that I consider effective for me.

So! Thank you for answering.

There´s a spell that´s called supreme invisibility, or superior invisibility. But I believe it´s supreme. It doesn´t fully uncloak you upon casting, which is nice, but I don´t quite get what kind of covering you´re getting afterwards.

Rage is an spell to be unlocked via leveling too, and these two spells plus shapechanging would be one of the attacking strategies. The guy is a rogue sorcerer blend, and the idea would be to rage plus invisibility plus shapechanging. However I do not know whether the rage buffs stack with the new shape. Hence the question.

... Oh, wait. Now I read what you said about it. So they really, hardcore do not stack. Now it´d all be about invisibility plus a mean sneak attack involving a big big something, or invisibility plus a partially camouflaged gargoyle...?

I´m not really interested in buffing the character with spells; but rather disrupt those of my opponents. Unless it´s something that gives me even more strenght or hitting... buffing spells were never a thing for me, I know it´s vital but it´s not what the char is about.

The guy is one to just spit a lot of disruption, silences, dispells, and then bam! invisibility, or mirror shape, or something, or rage inbetween, then shapechanging and then straight ahead.

I see that the two feats I described don´t apply to the same field. However I don´t really understand the difference between DC and caster level. I might want to look that up.

Again, thank you for taking your time!

Cheers.

pulvasur wrote:There´s a spell that´s called supreme invisibility, or superior invisibility. But I believe it´s supreme. It doesn´t fully uncloak you upon casting, which is nice, but I don´t quite get what kind of covering you´re getting afterwards.

Greater Invisibility. It works like the 2nd level spell invisibility, but the duration is round / level. Once you attack, it works like the 3rd level spell displacement which grants 50% concealment and is a staple defensive buff for many gishes. If you have extend spell I would almost always rather use an extended displacement over a greater invisibility, especially if you have HiPS.

pulvasur wrote:Rage is an spell to be unlocked via leveling too, and these two spells plus shapechanging would be one of the attacking strategies. The guy is a rogue sorcerer blend, and the idea would be to rage plus invisibility plus shapechanging. However I do not know whether the rage buffs stack with the new shape. Hence the question.

Ok, I misunderstood. Yes, Rage will stack, but it's just Rage, not mighty or epic rage so not a huge bump. The benefit of rage is that it applies to all party members and there is no exhaustion when the spell ends. That said, this is a lot of round per level buffs so you will need to realize the limitations of such a strategy. If you are planning to melee you will really want to focus on longer term buffs (10 min/level, hour/level and extended minute/level). As a gish type you won't really have a lot of slots to be constantly reapplying round/level buffs like Rage and Greater Invisibility.

pulvasur wrote:... Oh, wait. Now I read what you said about it. So they really, hardcore do not stack. Now it´d all be about invisibility plus a mean sneak attack involving a big big something, or invisibility plus a partially camouflaged gargoyle...?

No, as I said, I misunderstood the ability Rage vs. the spell Rage. They will stack in some ways, I would have to test to know for sure. However, as above due to the short duration of the spells you are talking about it is not really a viable strategy, especially while leveling.

pulvasur wrote:I´m not really interested in buffing the character with spells; but rather disrupt those of my opponents. Unless it´s something that gives me even more strenght or hitting... buffing spells were never a thing for me, I know it´s vital but it´s not what the char is about.

This is very confusing. How will Rage and Shapechange disrupt spellcasting? If you are looking for a build to disrupt spellcasting try a Bard21/F4/DC5 or something (and it would be STR based which fits). What you've indicated about your build is not really going to disrupt much of anything. Invisibility might disrupt spell casting if timed right (as in, from a wand or quickened) but the rest of the build is really looking like a gish.

pulvasur wrote:The guy is one to just spit a lot of disruption, silences, dispells, and then bam! invisibility, or mirror shape, or something, or rage inbetween, then shapechanging and then straight ahead.

Silence is a Cleric/Bard spell... Again, this is looking more and more like a Bard/Dissonant Chord build...However, they don't get shapechange, unless from scrolls which would not really be feasible, long term.

pulvasur wrote:I see that the two feats I described don´t apply to the same field. However I don´t really understand the difference between DC and caster level. I might want to look that up

Caster Level effects many things. It is how duration of spells are calculated, such as round/level = 6 seconds per caster level, so at CL30 a round / level spell lasts 3 minutes. DC is how difficult your spells are to resist, so if you have a DC of 30 and you cast a level 9 spell the enemy has to make a save (d20 + the relevant save) vs. a DC of 39 (30 + spell level). If you were to cast a Greater Dispel at something, the calculation is d20 + Caster Level (capped at 20) vs. a Dispel Check of 11 + Caster Level. So, a level 20 or higher caster who rolls a 20 would have a dispel check of 40, while a CL30 character would have a dispel check of 41 (11+30), thus CL30 characters are immune to greater dispel. This makes Mordenkainen's Disjunction and Breach important spells for stripping buffs.

pulvasur wrote:Again, thank you for taking your time!

You're welcome, good luck with your character.

Maybe he means the PnP 9nth level spell called superior invisibility which makes the recipient undetectable even against divination, listen, spot, etc. It is not implemented on BG, but it would be cool if it was.