Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Hey there. Everybody's favorite psychotic Kitten here. Just need to air a few grievances. Some minor annoyances really. But I figure it's better to vent here than to blow up IG.

Quite frankly: Some of the monsters here are just waaaaaay too strong.

Geist von Mitternacht's build is very simple: Level 15 Rogue, level 9 Assassin. I have Weapon Finesse, all that fun stuff. Two-weapon fighting, improved two-weapon fighting, so on and so forth.

At level 24 my base attack bonus is a 17. My attack rolls are, with twin +3 weapons, +27/+22/+17/+12 with my primary hand and +27/+22/+17 with my secondary hand. I attack 7 times at 13d6 sneak attack (8d6 from Rogue, 5d6 from Assassin.) Should be pretty impressive, right?

My saves are Fortitude +13, reflex +24, Will +10

My armor class with a 24 dexterity, full ranks in tumble, with +4 padded armor is a 34. 37 if I use Combat Expertise (Which I do with Deadly Defense.))

Decently geared, but by no means maxed out, my Hide and Move Silently, with Hide in Plain Sight, is a 48. Which should be pretty impressive, right? Not here.

By PnP standards having a 37 AC and a +27 attack roll would seem pretty impressive, right? But not here.

Some of the monsters here have attack rolls in the high 30s. Their armor classes are ranking in the mid 40s or 50s. They seem to have at least +40 spot and/or Listen checks. By my check a great number of monsters hit my armor class on a -5. The Lich has a Dominate Person spell with a DC of 29. That's a +14 Spellcasting Modifier...along with, I might add, at least a Caster Level 30 Mordenkainen's Disjunction which just completely annihilates any defenses you may have.

It's frustrating. Granted, with Geist, I tend to just mess around the FAI and tell corny jokes and have a good laugh. But that's because, quite honestly, I can't go anywhere without a group of power builders without just dying on the spot.

Frankly: It's frustrating. And not very welcoming. There's no fun to be had on a server where by taking one wrong turn you're just simply going to be eviscerated.

Now, granted, I understand that boss monsters are supposed to encourage large groups of players to get together to RP and adventure together. Which is great. But most of the time that I can really devote to the game is at 2 and 3 in the morning when, quite frankly, I kind of just want to be left alone to grind a bit. But grinding isn't really possible here when the only places with decent loot are ones that if you take one step into without being a ridiculously overpowered power-build you're going to get eaten in three seconds flat.

As I said, I just needed to vent out a little bit of frustration. The players here are great. The DMs are great. I've yet to meet any players or DMs here on Baldur's Gate that I didn't enjoy immensely. I quite thoroughly enjoy annoying the crap out of every one of you and, for the most part, you all take it like a good sport.

.....just had to get my frustrations off my chest. Thank you.

There once was an idea and an effort to make some Areas that would really appeal to Rogue-only-type builds, so that they would be awesome there, utilizing their skills that are particular to their Build/Class concept.

But yes, unfortunately, a Rogue/Assassin will have a hard time of it.

Hmm where is that lich ? At first sight I'm tempted to say that if you tackled a CL 30 lich you deserved the ass whooping if you're lvl 24

Well if you want HiPS (incredibly powerful feat) you have to pay the price. In this case it means lower AC and AB.

48 hide/ms is pitiful? Well, I learned something new again.

Vesgar wrote:48 hide/ms is pitiful? Well, I learned something new again.

My hips mage used to hit high 70's with full caster level as well and decent DC's. Other people can hit high 90's.

My Druid can easily hit close to mid-90 spot.

You have to remember, anybody with at least 29 Spot/Listen will be able to detect someone with 48.

Vesgar wrote:48 hide/ms is pitiful? Well, I learned something new again.

My sneak Horkas reaches that right now at level 15. I think my other sneak Davendithas reaches that at level 13. Not that hard to reach that really. Much of it is +2 H/MS gear I do have one set of +4 H/MS on Davendithas though.

Flasmix wrote:

Vesgar wrote:48 hide/ms is pitiful? Well, I learned something new again.

My hips mage used to hit high 70's with full caster level as well and decent DC's. Other people can hit high 90's.

My Druid can easily hit close to mid-90 spot.

You have to remember, anybody with at least 29 Spot/Listen will be able to detect someone with 48.

wow

I planned my character with 33 hide/ms, +5 dex modifier, occasional spider skin and all the +2/+4 hide/ms items I can find in the Seven Sun's and the maskarran store. I guess even if I drop important feats to take stealthy and focus skills: hide/ms I won't be anywhere near those dream numbers. /sigh

kitteninablender wrote:Hey there. Everybody's favorite psychotic Kitten here. Just need to air a few grievances. Some minor annoyances really. But I figure it's better to vent here than to blow up IG.

Quite frankly: Some of the monsters here are just waaaaaay too strong.

Geist von Mitternacht's build is very simple: Level 15 Rogue, level 9 Assassin. I have Weapon Finesse, all that fun stuff. Two-weapon fighting, improved two-weapon fighting, so on and so forth.

At level 24 my base attack bonus is a 17. My attack rolls are, with twin +3 weapons, +27/+22/+17/+12 with my primary hand and +27/+22/+17 with my secondary hand. I attack 7 times at 13d6 sneak attack (8d6 from Rogue, 5d6 from Assassin.) Should be pretty impressive, right?

My saves are Fortitude +13, reflex +24, Will +10

My armor class with a 24 dexterity, full ranks in tumble, with +4 padded armor is a 34. 37 if I use Combat Expertise (Which I do with Deadly Defense.))

Decently geared, but by no means maxed out, my Hide and Move Silently, with Hide in Plain Sight, is a 48. Which should be pretty impressive, right? Not here.

By PnP standards having a 37 AC and a +27 attack roll would seem pretty impressive, right? But not here.

Some of the monsters here have attack rolls in the high 30s. Their armor classes are ranking in the mid 40s or 50s. They seem to have at least +40 spot and/or Listen checks. By my check a great number of monsters hit my armor class on a -5. The Lich has a Dominate Person spell with a DC of 29. That's a +14 Spellcasting Modifier...along with, I might add, at least a Caster Level 30 Mordenkainen's Disjunction which just completely annihilates any defenses you may have.

It's frustrating. Granted, with Geist, I tend to just mess around the FAI and tell corny jokes and have a good laugh. But that's because, quite honestly, I can't go anywhere without a group of power builders without just dying on the spot.

Frankly: It's frustrating. And not very welcoming. There's no fun to be had on a server where by taking one wrong turn you're just simply going to be eviscerated.

Now, granted, I understand that boss monsters are supposed to encourage large groups of players to get together to RP and adventure together. Which is great. But most of the time that I can really devote to the game is at 2 and 3 in the morning when, quite frankly, I kind of just want to be left alone to grind a bit. But grinding isn't really possible here when the only places with decent loot are ones that if you take one step into without being a ridiculously overpowered power-build you're going to get eaten in three seconds flat.

As I said, I just needed to vent out a little bit of frustration. The players here are great. The DMs are great. I've yet to meet any players or DMs here on Baldur's Gate that I didn't enjoy immensely. I quite thoroughly enjoy annoying the crap out of every one of you and, for the most part, you all take it like a good sport.

.....just had to get my frustrations off my chest. Thank you.

I do get your frustration. The epics can be rather rough for a great many chars though. Being lvl 25 with Marneiros with the highest ab at around 45-50 (do not remember right now) some regions can be quite tough for a non-spellcaster...
And unlike spellcasters I can not think of any boss, I would be able to take down on my own... Especially as the dispels are hurting my ac quite much...

Vesgar wrote: wow

I planned my character with 33 hide/ms, +5 dex modifier, occasional spider skin and all the +2/+4 hide/ms items I can find in the Seven Sun's and the maskarran store. I guess even if I drop important feats to take stealthy and focus skills: hide/ms I won't be anywhere near those dream numbers. /sigh

Don't worry about it too much. The longer you play, the more gear you'll be able to acquire. Even if you need to make a Favoured Soul to grind bosses to get loot a rogue can't get, which you can then mule over to them works. I've been here for 8 years and have amassed a lot of stuff in that time and I HATE grinding.

Don't forget your wands/potions of the camouflage spell for an easy +10 hide. Works for situations where you won't get your buffs dispelled right away.

If you are going to play a sneak basically EVERY slot, or the vast majority needs to be focused on granting bonuses to hide/ms. That means greater cloaked amulet, cloak/belt/gloves/padded armor of the stalker, ring of the assassin, ring of hiding and boots of elven kind until you can get hell gear. Use wands of IMA, barkskin/spiderskin, shield, shield of faith, mirror images to increase your defense when needed for added defense. carry a wand of invisibility as well in case you need to disrupt a dispel while HIPS is on cooldown.

At level 30 you should have a MINIMUM of low-mid 70's for stealth and with gear available you really should be able to reach 80 without having to use stealth weapons (allowing for weapons with some bonus damage instead).



If anyone is interested, this is a bit long, but might help the OP or anyone else that is struggling with the content on this server.

My first character was a DEX based Ranger/Assassin and I dealt with many of these same frustrations and they are well founded to a point, this server really punishes stealth based builds so hopefully we can address that to some extent. Stealth builds can still be viable and can at least solo some bosses, but should probably avoid the FGK or Yuan Ti Queen and above. A lot of it comes down to learning what the bosses can do, many of them have ample counter play available, there is not just 'one way' to beat them... For instance, with proper positioning a rogue can destroy the queen or the FGK with a simple wand of silence (and several other wands to ward off the blows of the FGK's buddies). This is a bit more advanced because you have to have solid timing and positioning, so it is not something you want to solo until you've had some practice with others, maybe even ask someone to 'spot' you that can solo these bosses so if you fail they are there to save the day if it is that important to you. Otherwise don't worry about soloing and just team up. The point is that while I am not trying to say L2P to anyone, I am saying that a little understanding of 'what went wrong' will go a long way toward preventing it in the future and coming up with strategies to handle PvE content more easily. Stealth characters are, IMO as difficult to learn as DC wizards in regards to what wards you need, what spells to use to counter various tactics, how to use positioning for protection, etc. There is definitely a skill to the mechanics of a sneak, but that also makes them very rewarding for those patient enough to take their licks (trips to the fugue) and learn from them... Steve would shake his head in horrified shock over the number of times Cranston died when I was trying to figure out how to solo Chaos...or the Yuan-Ti Queen, or the Frost Giant King, or even that little black dragon in Durlags! It takes time, patience, and willingness to look through your combat log and try to figure out new strategies. So if anyone is really interested to become better at playing your specific character I echo what Chambo stated. Ask for help, be willing to be wrong and learn from it and you will improve. It certainly beats trying the same thing over and over again and continually being frustrated at the repetitive results. So stop beating your head against a brick wall and instead see if there is a way around the wall...you'll probably end up enjoying yourself in game a lot more and you also might end up making a friend OOC'ly that ends up being an RP buddy IC'ly through the experience.

Ok, seriously. How the sweet hells are you getting Hide and MS that high, without having a metric butt ton of the old gear that new players can't get their hands on any more?

33 skill + 10 DEX + 2 Ammy + 2 Ring + 2 Helm + 2 Gloves + 2 Cloak + 2 Belt + 2 Armor + 2 Boots + 2 Weapon + 2 Weapon + 1 Background Feat Wild Child + 2 Stealthy Feat + 3 Skill Feats = 69 H/MS that is just feats and gear that can be bought on the market. Most of that can be bought at the Hell shop for the +4 type so yeah if you got a full set you are sneaking past everything.

I hit the 80s with Hide, but that is because I have the Hell Gear.

Which is sort of stupid that I couldn't get it myself, because to get to the Hell Gear, you need to have the Hell Gear. I instead had to rely on other players, which I did not mind to much as my character is a bit of a social butterfly. How is a lone wolf suppose to do this? Further Rogue is the only class on this server where the answer is often, get someone to help you, and that seams okay but god forbid we ask anyone else to do the same.

I feel for the Orginal Posters points.

They are all true.

You will hear through out this thread people telling the Sneaks how to play, they will talk about their sneaks, they will talk about how they did things. Though keep in mind all the posts that will come are from people who are inactive, their sneaks long retired or play but once a month if that. They have their alts for the content.


One has to keep in mind when you play mundane you can not reach skill cap. While a character like Flas Character can hit spot 93 with out breaking a sweat it is because he can get near skill cap with a combination of spells, items and monstrous wisdom stat. No one who is a basic Sneak can achieve that number. to Be able to sneak past that character you need a sneak score of 113, impossible on this server. This is acceptable though to the powers in control of the server.

You will hear people say "I built a spotter" Spotter isnt a class. It is a skill you have and enhanced by your items and spells. People need to remember that some of these "spotter" builds carry two sets of gear, their running dungeons to kill the Frost Giant gear, and their rp gear which is all detected out in full Spot bonus in every gear slot. What is a class is a sneak. What the equivalent to this ridiculous imbalance would be to say my build is "Magic Immunity" and having +4 saves in every slot plus spell immunity items. After all we made sneak immunity a thing. This can be fixed by lowering the skill cap to a place where you can get to it with Stat and Gear. There are no doubt other ideas and why they are not talked about is sorta odd to me.

In the end, you play the sneaky git because its fun for roleplay, this is the only group that isnt expected to thrive in the games pve environment for any changes done to the builds and classes are met with hostile comments, back lash and pushback. For some reason people feel cheated when they cant see the sneak, as if something fundamental was being taken from them. The truth is far from this, a good sneak grows role play, other then this, why do people want them to fail so hard in pve? Upset at something perhaps.

I think all the sneaks that are left, and few stick around in their epic levels, should know that it will get better because its finally being talked about I think. I think there are a few people who actually see the imbalance, know its there and are gonna take care of it.

P.S. Can we look into insane DR on undead....