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Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:56 am
by Theodore01
What would happen, if we would just remove all the immunity spells from the game.
Wouldn't that make the game much more balanced and interesting ?
Energy immunity, Protection from alignment, Deathward, ......
(All spells or even feats that make you immune to something.)
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:34 am
by Steve
Even if this proposal fit a Standard for Review, it is probably best to consider replacing Immunity with Reduction.
I personally do not see any Immunity spells as being "broken" (though, I'm sure someone else might know more on this than I). The biggest issue is really more how a single spell can shut down a particular Builds ability to successfully fight against a mob or another PC. I guess that leads to the creativity on the part of the Player to find a way around the Immunity, in order to win. But yeah, that's a L2P issue, and not any sort of IC way of playing.
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:36 am
by Nachti
Uhmm.... some areas like the old Shadowplane / Fire Area need to be rebalanced then.
Bosses with impossible DCs on Wail of Banshee would be a no go.
Paladins, Dragonslayers and Dreadlords would loose immunity to fear.
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:43 am
by Diamore
Balance does not equal interesting.
Many spells and immunity feats allow for the areas in the game to be playable. It is not unfair to say that our server is predominantly built with these immunities in mind and that their absence makes many areas impossible to play in. The server as a whole would jump drastically in difficulty and would thus either lose players, have dozens of areas unused or require heavy changes across the server.
Removing things people have is always a painful and time consuming prospect. I have long been of the opinion that adding non-spell based alternatives to these immunities is a better alternative to their removal.
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:55 am
by Hawke
Immunities help those casters out there survive... but yes, I think something like Shadow Shield and death ward should give like a +8 to death magic... the challenge with that, is beyond my knowledge, but if it is anything like frost mage and palemaster AC boost not being able to be combined (or was it frost mage and dodge ac bonuses) or the skill caps... maybe there is a save cap.. no idea.
Or instead of immunity to fire, it is a 40 DR/fire. But then how do you work weaknesses into the mix?
They definitely should not be on items. Ever. Maybe even not on wands or potions either. Keep em on scrolls. I know I might catch flak for that suggestion with the UMDers out there.
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:03 am
by Invoker
Theodore01 wrote:What would happen, if we would just remove all the immunity spells from the game.
Wouldn't that make the game much more balanced and interesting ?
Energy immunity, Protection from alignment, Deathward, ......
(All spells or even feats that make you immune to something.)
Ok, if it's a provocation, then...10/10,
If you are serious, then...ultimately, no, they would make the game LESS balanced and far less interesting to play, with the sole exception of Energy Immunity, which should not even exist (but some areas should be reviewed, because they were created with such spells in mind).
Following a line of reasoning akin to yours, immunity ITEMS (=no counterplay. Wear to win.) have been removed. Instead, immunity spells and effects, temporary and dispellable (=counterplay is there) are an important part of the game, and represent valid counter-moves to certain attack avenues.
Furthermores, things like Immunity to Poison (for Druids or priests of Talona, for instance) or Fear (Paladins & Co.) have an RP value even superior to the mechanical one, and define some of the classes possessing them. Taking them away would be an RP catastrophe.
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:09 pm
by V'rass
I vote no... just another unnecessary nerf that will almost certainly cause the server to lose players. If certain classes cant enter areas where these spells are needed then they should stay out of them and go to areas where such is not a problem or pick a class that has said abilities. Seriously this ain't rocket science folks...
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:18 pm
by AC81
No, they have counters.
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:39 pm
by Aspect of Sorrow
AC81 wrote:No, they have counters.
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:54 pm
by Theodore01
What counters have they, as you party with a invulverable selfbuffer with all immunities that last a full day.
But in the same context people speak about denying a poor fighter his desperately needed evasion.........
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:56 pm
by The Whistler
Breach traps
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:56 pm
by chad878262
Theodore01 wrote:
What counters have they, as you party with a invulverable selfbuffer with all immunities that last a full day.
But in the same context people speak about denying a poor fighter his desperately needed evasion.........
Anyone can obtain a wand of lesser breach.
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:07 pm
by Zethrenx99
Theodore01 wrote:
What counters have they, as you party with a invulverable selfbuffer with all immunities that last a full day.
But in the same context people speak about denying a poor fighter his desperately needed evasion.........
Breach, lesser/greater. Mords. Dispell, Greater. wall of dispell (and various other dispell spams). As well as the frostmage prc (which i would like to see extended to divine and warlocks as well). To name a few.
I think that a prc should be considered that is similar to frost mage but for deathspells since deathmagic is the most unimpressive magic for what is suppose to be the most feared XD.
Also, by the same stroke of immunity removal evastion, improved evasion, uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge would be added to this list.
Re: Immunities - should we remove them ?
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:11 pm
by Aspect of Sorrow
Zethrenx99 wrote:Also, by the same stroke of immunity removal evastion, improved evasion, uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge would be added to this list.
Druid immunity spells like Oaken Resilience, etc as well.