Glass Cannon Archer

[Vogar Eol]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?261047

The idea here should be fairly apparent. Allows use of a decent level of Mighty on a bow (+6), uses AA and fighter for BAB/AB, and had pumped a lot into Assassin Death Attack (DC 29 with 5d6). The initiative feats help counter the lower Dex.

Very much a glass cannon, from a defensive stand point. Could potentionally pump Hide/MS with item... but likely best used following behind someone more sturdy.

Any thoughts?

[chad878262]

How do initiative feats counter lower dex?

With a many shot archer you need a way higher AB to be effective...this is really too low IMO.

[Sun Wukong]

Assassin requires 8 ranks in both move silently and hide. These are cross class skills for a fighter, and thus you can have your first level of Assassin at level 15. So, drop 3 levels of Arcane Archer for 3 levels of Ranger or Bard?

As for manyshot, you can pop out of stealth.

[Vogar Eol]

This is a HIPS Archer. Dexterity bonus is part of the initiative check. One point of Initiative bonus is equivalent to 2 Ability points in Dexterity. This build gets +6 to Initiative, which equates to having 30 Dexterity but on a 18 Dexterity build.

This kind of build relies a lot on flat-footed enemies, rather than anything else. If things go bad, it made its attack from outside melee range, and can simply vanish.

Hmmmm, you're right about that Hide/MS. Usually I run something like this on a ranger, but am trying to push for Fighter.

Edit: I think that skill point mistake came from starting with Ranger and later going for Fighter.

[Vogar Eol]

I feel I need to work in 3 levels of Ranger early with the absolute minimum amount of hurt.

I'm thinking 10 Fighter / 3 Ranger / 8 Assassin / 9 Arcane Archer, or maybe 12 Fighter / 3 Ranger / 8 Assassin / 7 Arcane Archer.

Losing Fighter levels would drop Greater Weapon Specialization. Losing an additional Assassin level drop the paralyze DC and 1d6 sneak. Losing AA drops the arrow enhancement, which is effectively +2 on top.

[chad878262]

Even out of stealth I'd want a bit more AB. Initiative is strange in the nwn2 engine so not that beneficial I don't think. With many shot being -8 to AB I'd still try and get 3 more AB from DEX if possible...otherwise you could just use heroism wand or something.

Regarding ranger levels dropping fighter to 10 loses greater/epic specialization while AA7 only loses +1 arrow damage and the hall of arrows ability which you would not likely use. So I'd go F12/R3/A8/AA7 of the two options you listed. If you're confident in your AB, you could consider assassin 9/AA6 which would give you 5d6 sneak attack dice... another -1 to your imbue arrow, but 1d6 is better than +1, just like +4 from epic weapon specialization is better than +1 from AA.

[Vogar Eol]

It manages Epic Focus, but not Epic Specialization. So losing Greater Focus only loses the +2 Damage rather than losing a +4. Remember that each AA enhancement bonus gives +1ab/+1dmg, and losing two of those is like losing Ranged Weapon Mastery.

But yes, I'm actually very confident in the AB/BAB, and the initiative. I've not played on a server that allowed Assassin to qualify for AA before, but I have done 20 ranger / 10 Assassin built the same way before.

They hit pretty hard out of stealth, and Initiative is extremely key to allowing the Death Attack to stun. If it's a stun, you basically win. Multishot + Improved Rapid Shot really allows a lot of chances on one HIPS. You stun a whole room, then use the time left to kill them.

The Initiative feats are useless in Party though. No one will ever let you go ahead and ambush things outside of combat (and hence start an initiative check). So in party, you might as well be considered to have normal sneak attack.

Anyway, I'm going to try and work in Ranger when I get home. I run some variations past you guys. Also, consider this build as a UMD user. It has tons of Skill Points.

[chad878262]

Didn't realize the arrows added AB and damage...that makes it a tougher call. Can you afford to wait to 15 for assassin?

[Vogar Eol]

As for waiting to 15... maybe. How badly would that hurt the Epic Intelligence? Quality of life would be a lot lower with such late HIPS.... but an RCR could make life easier.

Edit: I also could certainly dump Strength into Dex, but it ends up making bow Mighty irrelevant. I've found myself a +8 Mighty bow, but dumping everything into Dex it would be pretty useless.

[chad878262]

Well, you could always just drop some of your INT in to DEX too...

[Boddynock]

The reason people have suggested a higher base AB is because hitting with more shots per round will get you higher average damage per round than higher damage per shot. Particularly when you can manage that high a base AB with the same base damage, or higher (Like over 50 base AB). A high death attack DC is cool, and I have had builds that played around with that before. But if you are flat out killing things in a round or less anyway, what does it matter?

[Vogar Eol]

It matters because it's built around that DC. Otherwise, It could have simply gone Ranger / Fighter and pushed everything into Str/Dex/Con. That's not what this is.

Only the first combat flurry, of the very first round, applies Death Attack save vs paralysis. It only does that on a successful initiative check, and never against things "in combat". That nessitates three things:
1. Winning the Initiative Check, which is 1d20 + Dex Mod + Feats vs the same.
2. Good Enough BAB, and having a lot of attacks inside the first Flurry.
3. Having an excellent DC on the attack (29 isn't great, but four saves vs 29 are).

Remember, Truestrike exists. So do wands.

[chad878262]

That's not how it works in the nwn2 engine. When I solo'd Cranston death attack worked at various times, not only the first combat round. His DC was only 21 and it still worked pretty often, even in epics.

[Vogar Eol]

I'm going out on a limb here and saying you had special epic feats and were using melee, not a bow.

[chad878262]

Melee yes... epic feats were epic prowess, expose weakness, bane of enemies and great DEX...