Heavy Armor and Shield Feat Suggestions

[metaquad4]

Heavy Armor Melee builds tend to get crapped on a bit, mechanically speaking. Dwarven Defenders are awesome, but other than that, their defenses tend to be lower than the "squishy" mages. I propose a few feats to correct this:

1) Armor Specialization: Change this into a line of feats.

Armor Specialization: 2/- for medium armor, 3/- for heavy armor.
Greater Armor Specialization: 4/- for medium armor, 6/- for heavy armor.
Epic Armor Specialization: 6/- for medium armor, 9/- for heavy armor.

As well, the shield feats are very spread out, too spread out for many builds. Shield bashing could be a very viable tactic, comparable to two-handing a weapon, if these feats were condensed a bit:

2a) As well, an extension to the shield specialization of feats.

Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +1 AC while using that shield.
Greater Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +2 AC while using that shield.
Epic Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +3 AC while using that shield.

2b) As well, merge the shield specialization feats so that they also double as the damage feats. This would proceed as follows:

Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +1 AC while using that shield. Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +1 AC while using that shield. +2 Damage when shield bashing with that shield.
Greater Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +2 AC while using that shield. +4 Damage when shield bashing with that shield.
Epic Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +3 AC while using that shield. +6 Damage when shield bashing with that shield.

3) Next, the shield focus feats could serve in a similar manner to the armor specialization feats, as well as serving their current purpose:

Weapon Focus [Shield Type]: +1 AB when using the shield type, DR Depending on shield type. (1/- for light, 2/- for large, 3/- for tower)
Greater Weapon Focus [Shield Type]: +2 AB when using the shield type, DR Depending on shield type. (2/- for light, 3/- for large, 4/- for tower)
Epic Weapon Focus [Shield Type]: +4 AB when using the shield type, DR Depending on shield type. (3/- for light, 4/- for large, 5/- for tower)

So that this synergies nicely:

4) Idea 1 and Idea 3's DR/- (those provided by wearing certain armor and shields) would stack with each other, but with no other kinds of /- DR.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Heavy armor and board and sword users could use some love, this should provide them with that love.

[Theodore01]

how about these:

Battle Plate 2,500 gp +9 +1 -7 50% 125 lb. Races of Stone

Mountain Plate 3,250 gp +10 +0 -9 60% 225 lb. Races of Stone

[chad878262]

1) Armor Specialization: Change this into a line of feats.

Armor Specialization: 2/- for medium armor, 3/- for heavy armor.
Greater Armor Specialization: 4/- for medium armor, 6/- for heavy armor.
Epic Armor Specialization: 6/- for medium armor, 9/- for heavy armor.

Doesn't this essentially give the same thing as Epic DR, except at the cost of 2 regular feats and only one epic feat, instead of 3 epic feats? Doesn't seem like a good idea to create new feats that circumvent existing feats (at lower cost).

As well, the shield feats are very spread out, too spread out for many builds. Shield bashing could be a very viable tactic, comparable to two-handing a weapon, if these feats were condensed a bit:

2a) As well, an extension to the shield specialization of feats.

Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +1 AC while using that shield.
Greater Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +2 AC while using that shield.
Epic Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +3 AC while using that shield.

2b) As well, merge the shield specialization feats so that they also double as the damage feats. This would proceed as follows:

Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +1 AC while using that shield. Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +1 AC while using that shield. +2 Damage when shield bashing with that shield.
Greater Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +2 AC while using that shield. +4 Damage when shield bashing with that shield.
Epic Shield [Type] Specialization [Shield Type]: +3 AC while using that shield. +6 Damage when shield bashing with that shield.

There was some discussion about giving a boost to the shield line of feats, but not sure where it landed. I will check QC and bump the relevant thread.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Heavy armor and board and sword users could use some love, this should provide them with that love.

I can agree with this to the point that outside of Dwarven Defender they are less than exciting (unless a mage and/or cleric buffs them up, of course, then they are quite fun...)

The standard issue I have with new feats as a general rule is there are only so many slots to take new feats (similar to the introduction of new skills). Adding new feats without adding more chances to take feats is a little like taking a starving kid in to a restaurant, but not letting him eat. Unless we want to look at the mechanics of every melee class and give them additional feats at various levels (while ensuring that extra 'dips' are not favorable to divine/arcane gishes) we have to find another alternative.

This started with the epic store. Now, outside of 1 point of EB, melee types can outfit themselves so as to have similar AC and AB to caster types, meanwhile, EDM aside (which melee types can get just as easy as divine gishes) they will consistently outperform casters in dealing damage. The weakness for both fighter and rogue types is saving throws and access to resistances. You still essentially need UMD for a minimum of deathward and least mantle. I fall on the side of permanent immunity items to anything are a big no-no. However, I feel use per day or charged items that don't require UMD should be more prevalent and would do a lot to benefit non-caster classes. However, you can't very well expect folks to fill up a whole page of inventory with on use items, so perhaps it would even be beneficial to make such items that have one or two protections available on a per use cost basis. For instance, perhaps an item usable by Fighter/Rogue/Paladin/Ranger/Barbarian/Phantom/Swashbuckler which has one use per day of freedom of movement, one use per day of deathward and one use per day of Iron Body. Wouldn't that be fun to use for a boss fight? The duration would be relatively short and can't run around with it non-stop...but it would certainly give your Fighter some protections for a brief time.

The other option is to allow crafting higher level spells on wands, but without modifying the crafting costs that would get pretty ridiculous and players already won't pay for potions with 7th level spells on them (because 50*7*13= 4,550 minimum with no profit cost for one potion of Shadow Shield or any other level 7 spell).

Just some thoughts, but really if you stop and think about it the very real separation between caster and non-caster comes down to, very simply, access to spells vs. no access to spells.

[Valefort]

The answer is not more power to melee but less power to mages who really shouldn't be standing in front of big bad monsters >_>

[chad878262]

The answer is not more power to melee but less power to mages who really shouldn't be standing in front of big bad monsters >_>

But wouldn't this be even more difficult to address?

And what about the divine gishes?

And the bards...and the druids...and the monks...and, and,and...

I think it would be much more difficult to bring down various casters then to help non-casters, though in spirit, I agree with you that depowering caster classes would bring the role of front liner back where it belongs...

[Invoker]

The answer is not more power to melee but less power to mages who really shouldn't be standing in front of big bad monsters >_>

Do you know why they stand there? And how?

PM me if you want to discuss it.

[metaquad4]

Don't forget, like all ideas with numbers, they are not exact. They can be tweaked. If you are dissatisfied with exact numbers, please also suggest what kind of numbers you'd suggest.

@Chad, many of these are feats that already exist. I condensed the shield bash feats for the majority of them, to make the defense feats and the offense ones the same. AB and AC. Damage and DR. That'll make less feats, if one wants to sword and board with shield-bashing.