Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Heya all,


some of you may have stumbled into Shea already, she's buying and selling all over the Sword Coast.

Her current build is this:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?264446
She just hit level 20.

The more I advance in levels the more I realize that both Whirling Dervish and Shadowdancer don't fit the RP well.
She's a merchant first and foremost, not a bladedancer that completely hates and avoids the light. ^^

I therefore would like to get rid of both prestige classes but there are several problems with that.

(1) Getting rid of Shadowdancer not only makes me lose HIPS (and therefore her only real defense, being not minmaxed and Rogue-based both her AC and saves are mediocre/awful) but also Darkvision which I simply don't want to lose. Nothing more immersion-breaking than "I have a torch, see? And now I'm vanishing - see? And the light source vanishes with me although it is no part of my body - see?"

So Shea doesn't use torches, light spells or the like but since many parts of BGTSCC are just completely black I would be effectively banned from those places without darkvision.

(Also: I tried the "Hide in Shadows" feat on an earlier char and it's simply unbearable to use that in combat - the only time you really need it. The fact that it doesn't account for massive, large trees, either, is annoying but nothing that would stop me from using it. But 4 seconds of defenselessly standing around while everyone and their dog are hitting you . . . *sighs* I'd LOVE to use that feat but simply can't )

(2) Getting rid of WD makes me lose all skill focuses which were the reason to include it in the first place.

In the build linked above I summarized what I'd like to achieve and I tried to come up with an alternative build several times already - like R19, F4, GT4, SD3 or R19, SB 5, GT3, SD3, but both of these are still just leveldipping (which is cheesy in my opinion) while being even weaker (mechanically) than the current build.

Any helpful ideas would be welcome here.

If you don't want to use HiPS you could drop SD completely in favor of Invisible Blade and be a Feinter. You will be MUCH more dependent on gear to get bluff as high as possible, as in 80+ to be useful in epic areas while still getting AC in the mid to high 40's. I would suggest taking the full 5 IB levels and getting INT to 17 so you can use a +3 item and get the full +5 AC. Something like R19 /IB5/WD3/GT3 (or R18/GT4 if you need the extra feat). May be a bit feat intensive, but by keeping WD you can keep SF:Appraise as well as getting SF: bluff and one other of your choice (maybe UMD?) May still not be what you are looking for and I will be driving for most of the day today and on vacation for a week, so probably can't make you an example build. Basically with no HiPS you want AC of at least 45 (49 w/ shield wand, 50 w/ haste) and higher is of course better. You want a little higher AB for when feint is not working, but you do have the option of using a shield when needed. If you want to go a bit higher STR/less DEX you could also go for Shield Bash/Shield Slam which can help if feint isn't working. Mithral Chain means you can go 15 DEX +3 DEX item, then you want solid CHA for bluff (and because you are a merchant) and high enough STR so that your AB is a minimum of 35 (after permanent buffs like +4 EB, but not including heroism, aid, bless, etc.)

Hope this helps, might still not be what you are looking for, but feinter has much more synergy with merchant RP since it utilizes bluff/CHA instead of DEX. More STR also helps with carrying all that inventory for sale!

VillageGreenWitch wrote:(1) Getting rid of Shadowdancer not only makes me lose HIPS (and therefore her only real defense, being not minmaxed and Rogue-based both her AC and saves are mediocre/awful) but also Darkvision which I simply don't want to lose. Nothing more immersion-breaking than "I have a torch, see? And now I'm vanishing - see? And the light source vanishes with me although it is no part of my body - see?"

May I speak to you about the cult of the Spirit Shaman? Level 20 spirit shaman has access to 'Darkvision.'

And you could easily take 4 level dip into rogue for an expanded list of class skills.

Starting as a tiefling (13,18,11,18,8,10) would allow your current build to get Eprowess,EW and Combat Insight (instead your of 3*DEX). A tiefling gets darkvision.

Thanks for the recommendations so far, much appreciated.

Unfortunately none of these I can follow.

(1) Chad878262:

I do not want to get rid of HIPS as a defensive ability. Neither I want to skip Darkvision.
I'd like to skip SD, right - but not at the expense of HIPS and Darkvision.

Also - Invisible Blade is a hitman style class as far as I can see. This doesn't mix any better with my merchant RP idea than WD does.
To be clear here: I know that both SD and WD are great choices mechanically, I do not doubt that IB is, too. But I'm not convinced that I could RP Shea as a fast-whirling, assassin-like merchant.
Also: raising INT to 17 would mean to either go with a lower starting STR/CON/DEX (as I don't want to minmax WIN/CHA) or getting rid of PTWF/Epic Dodge.

(2) Comments Only:

That's nice to know. But unfortunately 20 levels SS means -180 Skill points, -10d6 sneak, -Improved Evasion, HIPS, Epic Dodge etc. etc.

(3) Theodore01:

I know that Tieflings (and all those other nun-humans) are usually treated like humans (with an odd but lovely anomaly) on this server - but I do not want to RP an evil outsider char.
Not as a merchant that is meant to be neutral enough to get along with almost everybody (or at least pretending to do so for the sake of profit and business )

Not to mention that this char is established for a year on this server already and I do not even have the slightest idea how to explain her sudden transformation into another race.

What about a Monk of Waukeen? You could go Monk 4/R19/GT4/SD3. Or, if you go even higher Monk you could even drop SD3 since enough Monk Speed will actually allow you to use Hide in the Shadows with more success. M11/R13/GT3/Bodyguard 3 will get a pretty decent boost to your speed which should get you enough with haste to have no issues getting distance on enemies to allow Hide in the Shadows the 4 seconds it needs to activate. Unfortunately, you will be missing Darkvision if you drop SD. It's unfortunate items that grant Darkvision don't work as it would solve a lot of your problems!

In any case, I think the difficulty I am having, and perhaps others are having is that you are saying you don't want classes, but don't want to drop those classes...So I guess I am not really sure what you are looking for. If you want Human I'm pretty sure SD is the only way you will get Darkvision.

chad878262 wrote:What about a Monk of Waukeen? You could go Monk 4/R19/GT4/SD3. Or, if you go even higher Monk you could even drop SD3 since enough Monk Speed will actually allow you to use Hide in the Shadows with more success. M11/R13/GT3/Bodyguard 3 will get a pretty decent boost to your speed which should get you enough with haste to have no issues getting distance on enemies to allow Hide in the Shadows the 4 seconds it needs to activate. Unfortunately, you will be missing Darkvision if you drop SD. It's unfortunate items that grant Darkvision don't work as it would solve a lot of your problems!

In any case, I think the difficulty I am having, and perhaps others are having is that you are saying you don't want classes, but don't want to drop those classes...So I guess I am not really sure what you are looking for. If you want Human I'm pretty sure SD is the only way you will get Darkvision.

The coloured part sums up the problem very much perfectly.
That's exactly my problem, too. I probably just want a Jane-of-all-trades: HIPSer, Feinter, (both with high skills to back it up), high AC/AB/Damage, lots of skill points . . oh and if it had something like GFKs Ghost sight or Shadow Jump it'd be even better. *

That monk idea is a great one, by the way. Not sure I'm going to use it but I'll tinker with that now, thanks!

VillageGreenWitch wrote:The coloured part sums up the problem very much perfectly.
That's exactly my problem, too. I probably just want a Jane-of-all-trades: HIPSer, Feinter, (both with high skills to back it up), high AC/AB/Damage, lots of skill points . . oh and if it had something like GFKs Ghost sight or Shadow Jump it'd be even better. *

Ah, the eternal dilemma! I want it all and I want it now! The biggest issue is it is not possible to have high enough skill to be great at both HiPS and Feint. You need to focus feats, and gear on one or the other... With hell gear you can generally skip SF: hide/MS/Stealthy if you can't fit them and still be adequate at stealth in PvE. However, with Feint mechanics you absolutely have to focus feats and gear to get bluff as high as possible if you want it to be consistently successful.

Good news? High AC is relatively doable as a rogue thanks again, to hell gear. You should be able to exceed mid-40's which should be enough, especially once you get epic dodge. With UMD you should be able to get to low 50's. Your primary weakness, as with all Rogues will remain your will and fortitude saves. Having HiPS with a feinter is still beneficial, even if your stealth skills are only ~mid 50's because you can use feint and only HiPS as a defensive measure against casters. Even if they spot you line of sight will be broken so if you time it right they'll lose the spell they were trying to nail you with. As far as AB, so long as you get to 35+ you will be fine since both HiPS and Feint deny the opponent DEX and Dodge AC. Finally, no rogue with Epic Precision has ever had an issue with damage. You should have enough sneak dice to do fine there. The monk heavy build does lose some of those sneak dice, but at 11 monk you will hit more of your sneak attacks thanks to Greater Flurry (first 3 attacks are all at highest BAB, with haste all 4 of your sneak attacks will be at highest BAB). So it's a matter of doing less sneak damage per hit, but in general landing more sneak attacks before Expose Weakness starts lower AC to where all sneak attacks land.

Whatever you decide, hope you find some mix that you are happy with, in the end!

VillageGreenWitch wrote:(3) Theodore01:
I know that Tieflings (and all those other nun-humans) are usually treated like humans (with an odd but lovely anomaly) on this server - but I do not want to RP an evil outsider char.
Not as a merchant that is meant to be neutral enough to get along with almost everybody (or at least pretending to do so for the sake of profit and business )
Not to mention that this char is established for a year on this server already and I do not even have the slightest idea how to explain her sudden transformation into another race.

No one would notice

While some looked like normal humans .....
Unlike half-fiends, tieflings were not predisposed to evil alignments and varied in alignment nearly as widely as full humans.......

from http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tiefling

I do have fun playing her, no worries.
And the things she absolutely HAS to be good at (which is, oddly enough, buying, selling and bartering ) . . . she is good at.
It's just nuances, I suppose.
And living without those nuances will not ruin the fun in playing her.

@Theodore: Hmmmm.... *scratches chin, pondering*

Well, half-elf gets low light vision and a few bonuses to useful skills. Could quite easily be something she's been keeping a secret.

That would make her lose another feat, but other than that - good idea. may have to tinker around.