Bladesinger PRC Build?

[Caelin]

Here's my first attempt. Anyone got suggestions or improvements?

http://nwn2db.com/build/?264070

[Sun Wukong]

Improved Critical is a wasted feat since you can get the effect from simply casting the spell 'Keen' on yourself. Then, based on your ability scores you might do better with a Rapier and Weapon Finesse.

Able Learner comes a bit late for my taste, and considering how you have only maxed out concentration and spellcraft, both of which are class skills, I am not entirely sure if you need it. Moreover, you have that 110 skill points left, thus you could max out one skill with nothing but crossclass points and get another skill to 22 with nothing more than crossclass skill points. (Presuming you have unlocked those skills as class skills first.)

Practised Spellcaster Wizard should be taken a bit earlier.

Edit: And if you are willing to try out a different kind of build, Wizard 8/Fighter 4/Bladesinger 10/Archmage 8 could be something possible - and able to get the same caster level of 29 as your build would. Spellpower 3, Mastery of Shaping. Both builds would meet the benchmark of 21 BAB for 5 attacks. Just throwing that out as an alternative. Doesn't work sadly, it is the 3 by 20 rule.

[Valefort]

This has very little melee damage, if you go combat insight you have to max INT, especially if you don't have swashbuckler, also the STR score doesn't matter, except for carrying capacity ofc.

[Caelin]

Improved Critical is a wasted feat since you can get the effect from simply casting the spell 'Keen' on yourself. Then, based on your ability scores you might do better with a Rapier and Weapon Finesse.

Able Learner comes a bit late for my taste, and considering how you have only maxed out concentration and spellcraft, both of which are class skills, I am not entirely sure if you need it. Moreover, you have that 110 skill points left, thus you could max out one skill with nothing but crossclass points and get another skill to 22 with nothing more than crossclass skill points. (Presuming you have unlocked those skills as class skills first.)

Practised Spellcaster Wizard should be taken a bit earlier.

.

I only fleshed out skills enough to meet class requirements. I usually try to get bigger picture stuff in place first before focusing on those smaller details.

Great catch with keen. Haven't played a non-bard spellcaster in a long time!

[Sun Wukong]

This has very little melee damage, if you go combat insight you have to max INT, especially if you don't have swashbuckler, also the STR score doesn't matter, except for carrying capacity ofc.

With the current high dex and low intelligence, the Combat Insight and a +3 Intelligence item you would get you '+7' damage from your intelligence. If you skip Combat Insight, just cast Bull's Strength on yourself, you could get '+6' damage.

But yeah, either way your damage is low as is your AB.
25 (BAB)
+4 (Strength with bulls)
+5 (Greater Magic Weapon)
+4 (Greater Heroism)
-3 (Power Attack)
+1 (Weapon Focus)
= 36 - or 41 - if you cast Tenser's Transformation on yourself.

Your damage output would be as follows:
1d8 (Longsword)
+6 (Strength) or +7 (Intelligence)
+5 (Greater Magic Weapon)
+6 (Power Attack)
= 21.5~ Per hit. It can work if you combine it with the appropriate Energy Immunity and AoE spell such as Acid Fog or Firewall. But it can start to feel like a struggle against DR of 10/- and especially 20/- or anything with a noticiable amount of regeneration.

Thus, what I would recommend you to do now is to take points away from that sky high dexterity and spend those into Intelligence instead. It will give you higher spell DCs and more damage per hit, along with additional spellslots. For example, if you reach base intelligence of 26, Fox's Cunning would give you 30, and that would mean your Combat Insight gives you +15 damage to your hit.

As for how low you can leave your dexterity, base 14 with Cat's Grace to buff it up to 18 allows you to get full use out of any regular Chain Shirt (4/4) and Mithral Chainmail (6/4). Base dexterity of 16 with Cat's Grace to reach 20 would be more suited for Studded Leather Armor (3/5) and Mithral Scalemail/Breastplate (5/5). (Base armor / Maximum dexterity bonus)

Moreover, instead of Toughness feat you might want to consider some additional metamagic. For example, Maximise or Empower Spell could let you cast more offensive spells - while Quicken Spell would let you 'rebuff or flee' if and when you get dispelled - but perhaps you want the extra hitpoints.

Edit: Also, if you go for longswords, be on the look out for longswords with non-'enchantment bonus' bonuses on it, such as elemental or physical damage. You can use buffs to get +5 EB, so that randomly generated sword with +1 Acid Damage and +1 Vampiric Regeneration and whatever else is basically an Epic Weapon in your hands.

[Caelin]

This has very little melee damage, if you go combat insight you have to max INT, especially if you don't have swashbuckler, also the STR score doesn't matter, except for carrying capacity ofc.

With the current high dex and low intelligence, the Combat Insight and a +3 Intelligence item you would get you '+7' damage from your intelligence. If you skip Combat Insight, just cast Bull's Strength on yourself, you could get '+6' damage.

But yeah, either way your damage is low as is your AB.
25 (BAB)
+4 (Strength with bulls)
+5 (Greater Magic Weapon)
+4 (Greater Heroism)
-3 (Power Attack)
+1 (Weapon Focus)
= 36 - or 41 - if you cast Tenser's Transformation on yourself.

Your damage output would be as follows:
1d8 (Longsword)
+6 (Strength) or +7 (Intelligence)
+5 (Greater Magic Weapon)
+6 (Power Attack)
= 21.5~ Per hit. It can work if you combine it with the appropriate Energy Immunity and AoE spell such as Acid Fog or Firewall. But it can start to feel like a struggle against DR of 10/- and especially 20/- or anything with a noticiable amount of regeneration.

Thus, what I would recommend you to do now is to take points away from that sky high dexterity and spend those into Intelligence instead. It will give you higher spell DCs and more damage per hit, along with additional spellslots. For example, if you reach base intelligence of 26, Fox's Cunning would give you 30, and that would mean your Combat Insight gives you +15 damage to your hit.

As for how low you can leave your dexterity, base 14 with Cat's Grace to buff it up to 18 allows you to get full use out of any regular Chain Shirt (4/4) and Mithral Chainmail (6/4). Base dexterity of 16 with Cat's Grace to reach 20 would be more suited for Studded Leather Armor (3/5) and Mithral Scalemail/Breastplate (5/5). (Base armor / Maximum dexterity bonus)

Moreover, instead of Toughness feat you might want to consider some additional metamagic. For example, Maximise or Empower Spell could let you cast more offensive spells - while Quicken Spell would let you 'rebuff or flee' if and when you get dispelled - but perhaps you want the extra hitpoints.

Edit: Also, if you go for longswords, be on the look out for longswords with non-'enchantment bonus' bonuses on it, such as elemental or physical damage. You can use buffs to get +5 EB, so that randomly generated sword with +1 Acid Damage and +1 Vampiric Regeneration and whatever else is basically an Epic Weapon in your hands.

All great thoughts, thank you. The build up right now is edited from the original version.

The dex is so high for ac purposes really. I'm really torn about this one - the other option would be to go rapier and weapons finesse, and then the ab would be much higher. Use spells as needed for higher damage against more formidable foes? Not sure how viable that would be or what yours or other people's thoughts are on that one!

[Valefort]

But Bladesinger gives you AC if you have more INT :O, just leave DEX at 16-18 and pump INT.

[Sun Wukong]

But Bladesinger gives you AC if you have more INT :O, just leave DEX at 16-18 and pump INT.

- Bladesong Style: When wielding a longsword or rapier and having nothing in the off-hand, a bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to Armor Class equal to half her class level, up to a maximum of half her Intelligence bonus. If the bladesinger wears medium or heavy armor, she loses all benefits of the bladesong style. This bonus will not stack with the AC bonus granted by Invisible Blade or Duelist.

So if I read that right, a character with 10 levels of Bladesinger and that previosuly mentioned 30 Intelligence would get +5 Dodge AC.

Thus, it really would beneficial for the Bladesinger to have as high Intelligence as possible. And yes, your AB is low compared to some Frenzied Weapon Master, or Favored Soul, but your arcane AoE spells with duration will make up for it whenever those tick their damage on multiple opponents.

With 30 Intelligence you could get the damage output you would have had with the high dex build without having Power Attack Turned on. (Also forgot that +1 AB from haste, sorry.) Thus, you can make it all work better with extremely high intelligence - even if you were to leave your base strength at 14.

And your build is a later bloomer, just like most arcane builds.

[Caelin]

Good thoughts all. Updated it again, would love further feedback!

[Sun Wukong]

It should work. The last feat spent on Spell Penetration could be replaced with anything else the Wizard bonus feat allows you to pick, for example some other Epic spell or metamagic. There is no need to hurry to pick it up though, reaching level 30 is a long, long road.

Edit: you should get 30 skill points in Tumble. Now you do get +2 dodge ac from tumble, and you are just one skill rank away from getting the full +3 dodge ac from tumble.

Edit 2: You've already unlocked Tumble as class skill from Bladesinger, so you can just keep raising it every level but it will cost two skill points. Eldritch Knight opens up Sense Motive.

[Akroma666]

I quickly put this together:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?264989

Might be a bit rough to level.

Edit: just noticed the shit CL. Now I feel the class sucks because you cant get your spell-casting progression, get bad wizard based HP, No AB, and even worse are dependent on buffs.

I don't think wizard-fighter builds were really a big thing in NWN2.. in my opinion, just roll bard.

[Caelin]

I don't think wizard-fighter builds were really a big thing in NWN2.. in my opinion, just roll bard.

There's no challenge in rolling a bard

[AC81]

There's not much challenge in rolling one of these either. You want strength based, use dragonslayer. You want intelligence based, roll a bladesinger.

You can get quite decent damage with both but I feel with the spellbooks they are more so defensive. They always have the age old conundrum though - how much CL is enough? Something divine gishes don't care about due to a certain 4th level spell.

[chad878262]

It should be noted that a Strength / Intelligence split with Bladesinger is fairly equal to a DEX/INT split. Assuming equal comparison to Valefort's SB build above, a STR based build could go W6/BS10/EK10/DC4 and go for a STR of about 20 (24 w/ bulls) and max INT, or you could go INT 18 or 22 w/ max STR if you are willing to give up a point or 2 from AC. Could also go Sorceror route and go S5/BS10/EK10/P5 w/ 22 STR, 22 CHA for EDM. It would lose most of the INT to AC, but could still be able to get maybe +1 or so for 14 INT. In any case with Divine Shield the extra INT may not be necessary since you can gain bonus AC when necessary.

Point being, you don't need to go max strength or max DEX to be effective, you can go for STR or DEX of 18-22 and still improve INT or CHA to decent levels and build a strong character. The great thing about Bladesinger is that it supports a variety of styles that have different Strengths and weaknesses. Getting INT to 26 is ideal to support decent DC's, bonus spells, max AC bonus and damage through Combat Insight, but lowering INT in favor of STR or DEX is an option should you chose to take a class that gains Evasion for Expose Weakness, gets damage/AC in other ways (such as EDM/Divine Shield) or you just want a different play style.