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Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2017)
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:32 am
by Sun Wukong
mrm3ntalist wrote:Whirlwind rage :
Changing the bonus AC from Dodge to Shield type.
How would that work with a shield?
mrm3ntalist wrote:Standard Rage :
Remove the AC penalty.
Add an effect to heal you if the CON loss makes you go below 0 HP.
Bonus damage 2/3/4/5
Regen 1 for rage and greater rage, regen 2 for mighty and epic rage
The bonus damage is not needed, nor is that regeneration. Edit: as for removal of AC penalty, will you also be removing the AB penalty from Whirlwind Rage?
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:42 am
by mrm3ntalist
Comments Only wrote:How would that work with a shield?
Base shield AC does not stack. The higher gets used
Edit: as for removal of AC penalty, will you also be removing the AB penalty from Whirlwind Rage?
No
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:50 am
by Valefort
The idea is to lessen the gap between the two types of rage, Whirlwind frenzy remains the best pick overall but with this the normal version of rage should be a valid option for some styles (like TWF barbarians).
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:56 am
by Sun Wukong
mrm3ntalist wrote:Comments Only wrote:How would that work with a shield?
Base shield AC does not stack. The higher gets used
How about an actual example. Use a +3 Heavy Shield, base AC of 2 with Shield Enchantment Bonus of 3.
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:59 am
by Steve
The Whirlwind Rage demotion is probably a good thing—with Dodge AC unique in that it stacks, a Whirlwind Raging Barb with Epic Rage could have +9 dodge AC. Which made the Whirlwind Barbarian pretty spectacular in this iteration. So essentially, the sky high Rage-induced AC is being toned down...and whether that is about a balancing between Whirlwind and Normal Rage, I'd say it is more about balancing in general terms.
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:04 am
by aaron22
the dodge ac's do not stack if you are using ice troll to get that dodge way up
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:05 am
by Sun Wukong
Valefort wrote:The idea is to lessen the gap between the two types of rage, Whirlwind frenzy remains the best pick overall but with this the normal version of rage should be a valid option for some styles (like TWF barbarians).
It already is. Just roll a Barbarian 20/Divine Champion 10 with the Standard Rage. With Steadfast, you will succeed any fortitude and will save thrown at you. Your increased constitution modifier makes sure you do not need to get as many Extend Rage feats as a Whirlwind Frenzy Barbarian does. You could just get that 'Primal Rage' amulet from Palace District and that is pretty much all you need to be honest.
And that is without considering how Epic Rage gives you extra 150 hitpoints, and you use those bonus feats to get Epic Damage Reduction, and just use regular feats to qualify for Fast Healing.
What does the Whirlwind Rage variant have? +5 dodge AC?
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:05 am
by aaron22
how does the regen 1 and 2 with standard rage work with the epic fast healing?
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:06 am
by Sun Wukong
Steve wrote:The Whirlwind Rage demotion is probably a good thing—with Dodge AC unique in that it stacks, a Whirlwind Raging Barb with Epic Rage could have +9 dodge AC. Which made the Whirlwind Barbarian pretty spectacular in this iteration. So essentially, the sky high Rage-induced AC is being toned down...and whether that is about a balancing between Whirlwind and Normal Rage, I'd say it is more about balancing in general terms.
Let me guess, your '+9' dodge AC comes from +4 Dodge boots?
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:18 am
by aaron22
the max you can have on dodge is epic rage+ITB at +8 and it will not stack and it is unchanged with the update.
edit: in fact making that a shield bonus HELPs a WW barb build taking ITB and epic rage
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:29 am
by Sun Wukong
ITB? edit: Right, Ice-troll Berserker. With one line posts, you might just as well type the whole thing.
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:29 am
by dedude
aaron22 wrote:the max you can have on dodge is epic rage+ITB at +8 and it will not stack and it is unchanged with the update.
edit: in fact making that a shield bonus HELPs a WW barb build taking ITB and epic rage
ITB gives natural AC. Dodge AC stacks though.
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:31 am
by Sun Wukong
Comments Only wrote:mrm3ntalist wrote:Comments Only wrote:How would that work with a shield?
Base shield AC does not stack. The higher gets used
How about an actual example. Use a +3 Heavy Shield, base AC of 2 with Shield Enchantment Bonus of 3.
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:35 am
by mrm3ntalist
Comments Only wrote:mrm3ntalist wrote:Comments Only wrote:How would that work with a shield?
Base shield AC does not stack. The higher gets used
How about an actual example. Use a +3 Heavy Shield, base AC of 2 with Shield Enchantment Bonus of 3.
What example? Depending whether you have a Small, medium or tower shield, when in rage the base bonus, ( 1, 2, or 4 ) wont stack. The enchantment does stack.
Re: NEXT UPDATE: More Barbarian changes
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:45 am
by Sun Wukong
Whirlwind Frenzy currently gives +2 Dodge AC, I assume that would be base +2 Shield AC.
Greater Whirlwind Frenzy currently gives +3 Dodge AC, I assume that would be base +3 Shield AC.
Mighty Whirlwind Frenzy currently gives +4 Dodge AC, I assume that would be base +4 Shield AC.
Epic Whirlwind Frenzy currently gives +5 Dodge AC, I assume that would be base +5 Shield AC.
Thus, as an example, a level 1 Whirlwind Frenzy Barbarian would gain no additional points of AC if he were to have that previously mentioned +3 Heavy Shield equipped.
Thus, as an example, a level 11 Whirlwind Frenzy Barbarian would gain +1 point of AC if he were to have that previously mentioned +3 Heavy Shield equipped.
Thus, as an example, a level 20 Whirlwind Frenzy Barbarian would gain +2 point of AC if he were to have that previously mentioned +3 Heavy Shield equipped.
Thus, as an example, a level 25 Whirlwind Frenzy Barbarian would gain +3 point of AC if he were to have that previously mentioned +3 Heavy Shield equipped.
Is this true or false?