Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

So I am currently leveling a halfling two-handed fighting Swashbuckling Ranger that will go 5 levels into FB and take three favored power attack feats and combat insight and expose weakness​ and improved power attack as the main feats.

Due to xp penalties swashbuckler will be level 8 instead of 5.

I am most interested in the duelist option but worry that ab will be too low since I will be using IPA and PA. This is why I am considering the Dervish alternative.

End intelligence and dex will be base 20. With bab 38-39.

What do you guys think? Stay with Duelist or go Dervish and be able to use light armor?

blacksoft wrote:So I am currently leveling a halfling two-handed fighting Swashbuckling Ranger that will go 5 levels into FB and take three favored power attack feats and combat insight and expose weakness​ and improved power attack as the main feats.

Due to xp penalties swashbuckler will be level 8 instead of 5.

I am most interested in the duelist option but worry that ab will be too low since I will be using IPA and PA. This is why I am considering the Dervish alternative.

End intelligence and dex will be base 20. With bab 38-39.

What do you guys think? Stay with Duelist or go Dervish and be able to use light armor?

Are you aware of the '3b20' rule? You need 3 levels in each class by the time you reach level 20. This build seems to be very focused on damage, especially against Favored Enemies and duelist 7 w/ 30 points in Parry will equate to +5 deflection AC, freeing up an item slot. However, without a decent INT you are probably better off with Dervish so you can wear mithral chainmail. AB should be ok once you have Expose Weakness, but until then you may struggle.

chad878262 wrote:

Are you aware of the '3b20' rule? You need 3 levels in each class by the time you reach level 20. This build seems to be very focused on damage, especially against Favored Enemies and duelist 7 w/ 30 points in Parry will equate to +5 deflection AC, freeing up an item slot. However, without a decent INT you are probably better off with Dervish so you can wear mithral chainmail. AB should be ok once you have Expose Weakness, but until then you may struggle.[/quote]

I am aware of 3b20 rule. Only level 4 atm.

Is 20 base, 24 max int score not good enough for duelist?? I would still get 7 + 5 ac from the class. It appears just between dex and int modifiers I would get 14 ac in robes. If I switch to Dervish I get 2 ac from that class as well as ac from mithral chainmail - what is the ac bonus differential between these two?

In any case, you say that ab will be a problem and thus dervish is the better option. What about taking another ab hit by going shadow dancer 3 and continuing swash progression to level 12 to obtain HIPS and epic precision?

chad878262 wrote:

blacksoft wrote: AB should be ok once you have Expose Weakness, but until then you may struggle.

Also, when you say this - do you mean with Dervish Dance buff up as well or you say without it on? Do you mean without access to potions for greater heroism and such too?

ok, sorry... When you said final 7 levels I made the assumption you were level 23.....

38 AB is pretty low, but with Expose Weakness it is fine since if you stack it every round you end up with enemies having -15AC if you land the attack each round. You will want to really work to time the click to fire Expose Weakness on the first attack so you are using your highest attack bonus for more of them to land.

Dervish Dance helps of course, and I would always keep potions of (greater) heroism and maybe even bless and aid just in case... Without HiPS I would say anything below 42 AB is simply too low, but you seem to have kind of a strange/unique build which you have made some sacrifices (or plan to make some sacrifices) for.

It'd be a lot easier to comment if you just link your full build from NWN2db... This will allow the community to take a look and perhaps provide advice on how to improve your build while keeping whatever RP you're going for in tact. Being that you are only level 4, pretty much any change is fair game at this point since RCR is free up to level 10.

chad878262 wrote:ok, sorry... When you said final 7 levels I made the assumption you were level 23.....

38 AB is pretty low, but with Expose Weakness it is fine since if you stack it every round you end up with enemies having -15AC if you land the attack each round. You will want to really work to time the click to fire Expose Weakness on the first attack so you are using your highest attack bonus for more of them to land.

Dervish Dance helps of course, and I would always keep potions of (greater) heroism and maybe even bless and aid just in case... Without HiPS I would say anything below 42 AB is simply too low, but you seem to have kind of a strange/unique build which you have made some sacrifices (or plan to make some sacrifices) for.

It'd be a lot easier to comment if you just link your full build from NWN2db... This will allow the community to take a look and perhaps provide advice on how to improve your build while keeping whatever RP you're going for in tact. Being that you are only level 4, pretty much any change is fair game at this point since RCR is free up to level 10.

I have linked both options here:

Dervish version:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?266188

Duelist version:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?266187

(I am open to other suggestions for those 7 levels)

Also though the notes say frenzy and haste extra attacks don't stack, they do in the OC. Do they stack on this server? Would be nice to know since will have haste on demand via duelist.

I forgot to add that will have +4 ab to flanking as well as +4 on charging if that adds anything to the conversation.

From the first glance, the biggest problem I see is the multiclassing experience penalty at level 25. I would swap the dervish/duelist and swasbuckler levels to avoid it. Moreover, I am not sure if the Expert Tactician feat actually gives you +1 AB. Distant foggy memory claims it was bugged and didn't do anything...

As for Duelist or Dervish, Duelist is actually fine at just 7 levels of it. As a Duelist you should try to get your hands on some Shortsword or Rapier. In a way, I feel that this might be the easier build to play as you will also get that +1d6 piercing damage against everything, and as for armour you just need to find some bracers or a shirt with +3 or +4 AC. Those tend to pop up in the in game consignment store fairly often, along with the Auction forums.

But as for Dervish, I would actually want to have all ten levels of it just for the Tireless Dance along with more uses of it and the other perks. But those three levels have to come from somewhere... Which means that you will likely lose your Expose Weakness...

Moreover, Swasbucklers do gain Evasion at level 16 on BGTSCC. Thus you are not required to go for a Ranger to get it.

Just some food for thought.

Comments Only wrote:From the first glance, the biggest problem I see is the multiclassing experience penalty at level 25. I would swap the dervish/duelist and swasbuckler levels to avoid it. Moreover, I am not sure if the Expert Tactician feat actually gives you +1 AB. Distant foggy memory claims it was bugged and didn't do anything...

As for Duelist or Dervish, Duelist is actually fine at just 7 levels of it. As a Duelist you should try to get your hands on some Shortsword or Rapier. In a way, I feel that this might be the easier build to play as you will also get that +1d6 piercing damage against everything, and as for armour you just need to find some bracers or a shirt with +3 or +4 AC. Those tend to pop up in the in game consignment store fairly often, along with the Auction forums.

But as for Dervish, I would actually want to have all ten levels of it just for the Tireless Dance along with more uses of it and the other perks. But those three levels have to come from somewhere... Which means that you will likely lose your Expose Weakness...

Moreover, Swasbucklers do gain Evasion at level 16 on BGTSCC. Thus you are not required to go for a Ranger to get it.

Just some food for thought.

I am not choosing based on what I am losing by not going full 10 levels in either Dervish or duelist, but rather what I am gaining from those 7 levels in relation to what I still need from the build, and i am looking for a good balance between ab and ac with those final levels. I don't care for Dervish that I am not getting the final 3 levels of goodies but rather I am gaining +4 to my ab. Same is true for duelist, the main reason I am considering that route is because it presumably adds more ac to my build that I would not have received otherwise. Everything else is just extra.

So in light of that, what do think?

I can't go 16 Swashbuckler due to xp penalty. And I need small race for what I m doing.

I would consider 5 swashbuckler, 6 ranger, 5 FB, 13 rogue if I felt it would answer my ab problem, but it doesn't.

Ranger 10 gives you nothing. You should either stop at 6 (Manyshot), 11 (Improved Rapid Shot), or 13 (Camouflage). Not to make your choice more difficult, but what about ShadowDancer 3? You already have Dodge and Mobility, plenty of skill points and DEX 20, after all. R6/SB7/FB4/SD3 means you won't be able to hit FB5 before epics, but then you can end up at R11/SB11/FB5/SD3 with no XP penalty and, presumably will have everything you want out of the build, plus HiPS which will help you out with the lowish AB, as 38 is more than fine when attacking out of HiPS.

Edit, if you don't mind the XP penalty toward the end of the build, R13/SB9/FB5/SD3 would be give you Camouflage, which is one of the most awesome abilities you can have. However, SB 11 gives Luck of Hero's and +1 AC, +1 all saves with no XP penalty is pretty tough to pass up.

chad878262 wrote:Ranger 10 gives you nothing. You should either stop at 6 (Manyshot), 11 (Improved Rapid Shot), or 13 (Camouflage). Not to make your choice more difficult, but what about ShadowDancer 3? You already have Dodge and Mobility, plenty of skill points and DEX 20, after all. R6/SB7/FB4/SD3 means you won't be able to hit FB5 before epics, but then you can end up at R11/SB11/FB5/SD3 with no XP penalty and, presumably will have everything you want out of the build, plus HiPS which will help you out with the lowish AB, as 38 is more than fine when attacking out of HiPS.

Edit, if you don't mind the XP penalty toward the end of the build, R13/SB9/FB5/SD3 would be give you Camouflage, which is one of the most awesome abilities you can have. However, SB 11 gives Luck of Hero's and +1 AC, +1 all saves with no XP penalty is pretty tough to pass up.

You have given me something to consider with HIPS. There is excellent synergy with HIPS, Manyshot, and weakening critical from Swashbuckler 14. I just have to lose my third favored enemy and have that xp penalty which I am not overly happy about. I would end up 8R/14S/5FB/3SD.

FE would be undead and outsider.

ShadowDancer Version:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?266215

Of course, choosing Shadowdancer over Dervish ensures that I am reliant on HIPS and expose Weakness to hit. It seems from your capable perspective that this is the better option over utilizing Dervish.

chad878262 wrote:Ranger 10 gives you nothing.

Ranger 9 gives you Evasion, and that 3rd favored enemy. If you are not going to make use of two-weapon fighting or ranged feats, there is no need to take more than 10 levels of Ranger.

blacksoft wrote:I can't go 16 Swashbuckler due to xp penalty. And I need small race for what I m doing.

I meant that you could give up on Ranger to go for more levels of Swashbuckler in order to get Evasion for Expose Weakness. But if you are willing to go for Shadowdancer to get HiPS...

How about a Swashbuckler 16 (Grants Epic Precision and Evasion, custom server changes)/Assassin 9 (5d6 Death Attack)/Frenzied Berserker 5 (For the Enchanced Power Attack)?

Assassin/Avenger has no alignment restriction here, and even though their spells will be easily dispelled, it is a way to get concealment fairly reliably. Level 1 Ghostly Visage: which gives 10% concealment, level 2 Darkness: which gives 20% concealment as an AoE effect, level 4 Improved Invisibility: which gives 50% concealment.



Edit: In the Nexus, there is a guy glowing with blue fire. If you talk to him you can save some of your character's experience by deleting the character that talks to it. Then claim the experience on a new character. Usually, you can just ask someone to hold onto your equipment.

Comments Only wrote:

blacksoft wrote:I can't go 16 Swashbuckler due to xp penalty. And I need small race for what I m doing.

I meant that you could give up on Ranger to go for more levels of Swashbuckler in order to get Evasion for Expose Weakness. But if you are willing to go for Shadowdancer to get HiPS...

How about a Swashbuckler 16 (Grants Epic Precision and Evasion, custom server changes)/Assassin 9 (5d6 Death Attack)/Frenzied Berserker 5 (For the Enchanced Power Attack)?

Assassin/Avenger has no alignment restriction here, and even though their spells will be easily dispelled, it is a way to get concealment fairly reliably. Level 1 Ghostly Visage: which gives 10% concealment, level 2 Darkness: which gives 20% concealment as an AoE effect, level 4 Improved Invisibility: which gives 50% concealment.



Edit: In the Nexus, there is a guy glowing with blue fire. If you talk to him you can save some of your character's experience by deleting the character that talks to it. Then claim the experience on a new character. Usually, you can just ask someone to hold onto your equipment.

Ah. I see what you are saying. However, I really want to explore a favored PA option, though, which mean Ranger stays. I really did not want to rely on the "crutch" of shadow dancer, but it seems that this is the best option for me. (At least weakening critical may help my ac loss of not taking Duelist.)

Also, is there a way to relevel aside from taking an xp loss? I would need to reallocate my skills.

Final note - thanks for all the help

blacksoft wrote:

Comments Only wrote:

blacksoft wrote:I can't go 16 Swashbuckler due to xp penalty. And I need small race for what I m doing.

I meant that you could give up on Ranger to go for more levels of Swashbuckler in order to get Evasion for Expose Weakness. But if you are willing to go for Shadowdancer to get HiPS...

How about a Swashbuckler 16 (Grants Epic Precision and Evasion, custom server changes)/Assassin 9 (5d6 Death Attack)/Frenzied Berserker 5 (For the Enchanced Power Attack)?

Assassin/Avenger has no alignment restriction here, and even though their spells will be easily dispelled, it is a way to get concealment fairly reliably. Level 1 Ghostly Visage: which gives 10% concealment, level 2 Darkness: which gives 20% concealment as an AoE effect, level 4 Improved Invisibility: which gives 50% concealment.



Edit: In the Nexus, there is a guy glowing with blue fire. If you talk to him you can save some of your character's experience by deleting the character that talks to it. Then claim the experience on a new character. Usually, you can just ask someone to hold onto your equipment.

Ah. I see what you are saying. However, I really want to explore a favored PA option, though, which mean Ranger stays. I really did not want to rely on the "crutch" of shadow dancer, but it seems that this is the best option for me. (At least weakening critical may help my ac loss of not taking Duelist.)

Also, is there a way to relevel aside from taking an xp loss? I would need to reallocate my skills.

Final note - thanks for all the help

If you are level 10 or below there is no XP loss from RCR. Once you get higher than 10 there is no way to re-level without taking the XP penalty unless you have a broken character and the DM staff approves a full RCR for you.

So I have reached level six and expect by level 10 i will be able to tell whether I will be satisfied with the type of build as I will have Swashbuckler intelligence to damage and taken favored power attack for giant and undead. I have decided to go straight into FB from 11-15 and incur xp penalty for a few levels so I get enhanced power attack asap.

Anyway, I really don't know which skills are best to focus on: so many options for lore.
Obviously will be taking survival, tumble, heal, hide, move silently, escape bonds one, and whatever umd I can afford. But what else? I want set trap, should I go for craft trap then? I like taunt. Should I put some in open lock. What values should I stop at for these skills. Some are more obvious then others. For example, Should I take survival all the way?

Truly, thanks

Craft Trap is useless, unless you get into a DM event where the DM allows you to craft makeshift trap... You can just buy traps from a Merchant in Soubar, and Roaringshore, I think.

Open lock skill is nice, you should probably aim for 1, 16, or 33 skill points. Though you could leave it 10 too... Opens most chests´with just a few +Open Lock skill items.

Survival is another lovely skill. In my experience, 10-20 is more than enough to see all mobs in most areas. No harm going higher though..