Page 1 of 1

Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:53 am
by Astegard
I was wondering how viable it is to make an unarmed character without going high level monk.

A build i'm running for example is:
Barbarian- Dwarf battlerager (gives improved unarmed)-Fist of the forest (for 1-4 unarmed damage) - Frenzied berzerker.

Seems the Improved unarmed feat on dwarf battlerager was a clear hint in that direction. (would be nice if they could add spikes to their gloves aswell for 1-4 unarmed piercing bonus hint hint :D?)

Currently level 12 with that build and seems ok so far. (5barb/5DBR/2fotf)
and with rage+wild stance+ frenzy I hope to at least deal some damage.

Re: Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:03 am
by K'yon Oblodra
Sounds like a strength based build could make up for the base damage loss compared to the monks first damage due to the added damage from strength.

Although certain monk feats that offer damage for wisdom if I recall correctly you'll miss out on... Monk experts?

Re: Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:13 am
by Sun Wukong
Monk has an easier time with Fiery Fist and Blazing Aura. The first consumes Stunning Fists uses while the latter requires Diamond Soul granted at Monk 13 and Wisdom of 23.

Now, as for builds...
Astegard wrote:Barbarian- Dwarf battlerager (gives improved unarmed)-Fist of the forest (for 1-4 unarmed damage) - Frenzied berzerker.
This is a bad idea because you have too many PRC to go with Barbarian. If you go Barbarian, you basically need to go Barbarian 20 to get Mighty Rage and then with at least 21 strength and BAB of 25 Epic Rage. Battlerage is a PRC you want 5 levels in, same as Frenzied Berserker, and Fist of the Forest takes 3, so at best you get Tireless Rage at character level 30. This is a bad idea, and you should drop one PRC. (Fist of the forest would be my pick.)

Now, I've have played an unarmed Barbarian 21/Battlerager 5/Fighter 4 on this server, and this is a build I would recommend for others if they want to go Battlerage and unarmed. The 3 Fighter bonus feats you get could be spent to get something like Improved Knockdown. The Barbarian 20 gives you access to Epic Rage, and if you take Battlerager levels fast you can get free Extend Rage out of Battlerager. (You should take Battlerager levels before any plans of taking additional Extend Rage feats.) Now, all you need to do is go for very high strength, you know, aim for something like 40 or 42.

Thus your unarmed rage fuelled unarmed damage will be:
1d3 (Unarmed Strike)
+ 15 (Strength of 40, base 28, 10 from Epic Rage, 2 from +2 Strength item)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus Gauntlets)
= 21~ (Avarage hit)

You can add +3 or +6 from PA or IPA, and additionally, I would advice against spending a single feat on Weapon Focus. You are a Battlerager, you fight with whatever you can get your hands on. Thus if you find that +4 Dwarven Battleaxe, you can make use of it, or if you just want to bash enemies with that Empty Ale Stein - you actually can!



Now, if you want both Fist of the Forest and Frenzied Berserker, I think you would be better off with a following build:
Fighter 22/Fist of the Forest 3/Frenzied Berserker 5 - or - Fighter 14/Rogue 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Frenzied Berserker 10.

Frenzied Berserker 5 - PA deals 5 points of damage, IPA 10.
Frenzied Berserker 10 - PA deals 6 points of damage, IPA 12.

Now, Stunning Fist can be taken outside of monk levels, you just need at least 13 dexterity and 13 wisdom, BAB of 8, and Improved Unarmed Strike feat. You will get one use per four levels, so at level 30 you will have 7 uses of Stunning Fist. If you spend a feat in Extra Stunning Attacks, you should get another 3 for a total of 10. Now, if you also go for Fiery Fist, you get a total of 5 uses of it. You get 1d6 Fire damage for 1 + Wisdom modifier. Thus you will want to get at least 18 wisdom on this character of yours. Something like base 14 + Potion of Owl's Wisdom migth do it, or you might want to have something like base 18 just for a few rounds of extra Fiery Fist.

Now, personally, I wouldn't bother with Stunning and Fiery Fist. It is a possibility if you want to go for it, but I think the feats could be better spent elsewhere.

So, we get back to the above builds, both of them should be able to reach about 30 strength and that would make their unarmed damage go something like this:
1d3 (Base Unarmed damage)
+ 10 (Strength)
+ 6 (Epic Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike)
+ 2 (Unarmed Weapon Mastery)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus Gauntlets)
+ 1d4 (Fist of the Forest)
+ 10 (IPA with Frenzied Berserker)
= 26.5~ (Avarage hit)

Now, as an interesting alternative, if you do go for Weapon Master 10, and also aim for 23 Constitution you could get Fast Healing III which basically negates the Frenzy bleeding damage. You would also get enchantment bonus of +10 to strength so you still should be able to reach 30 strength to get the above damage along with a bonus attack from Frenzy, and free Deathward.



So... would anything strike any particular fancy?

Re: Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:38 am
by Astegard
I got the barb/ fotf/ Frenzied more as an RP option as well.

start with feral stance then rage then frenzy as getting angry progresses :P.
Also a duergar so got the innate enlarge person for 3 magic damage.

Re: Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:08 am
by Sun Wukong
Rage and Frenzy do not stack that well - they do - but the game engine has a hard ability bonus cap of 12. Thus you really do not have a reason to hit that Frenzy button.

Re: Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:43 pm
by Jaffool
I found out by accidentally punching things with my Swashbuckler that insightful strike applies to unarmed damage.. So maybe second stat intelligence?

Re: Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:28 pm
by aaron22
shapechanging druid is really awesome bare knuckle fighter. its not a monk

Re: Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:30 pm
by aaron22
but seriously.. barb/bear warrior might be more viable now that vale fixed it up. personally, im too scared to try. everyone i have ever seen play it has quit the game. :?

Re: Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:40 pm
by Sun Wukong
Akroma is still here, so give it a try! It is one of the few PRCs that allow you make use of of more limited number of Barbarian levels.

Re: Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:48 pm
by Ahku
Does this server have the thug class?

What kind of armor, etc...would you use?

Full plate and tower shield?

Seems strange for a fister ;-p

Re: Unarmed fighting as non monk

Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 11:20 pm
by YourMoveHolyMan
So, as a non monk fist fighter.

Aside from those already detailed, what unarmed feats would you want?