Monk Build Dex or Wisdom?

[elsteveo]

Hi Guys simple question I am looking at building a Monk I have a RP idea inspired by a book series that I am keen on trying out.

So as per the title what is the better option Dex or Wisdom?

I have also read the most people think that having 4 levels of fighter to give the weapon spec feats is valuable too is this correct?

Thanks in advance for any help and input.

[DeepFriedMoose]

IMO, there's a couple ways to go here. A good Dex AND Wis is the way I prefer, but that's because of Intuitive Strike. If I had to only use Weapon Finesse, I'd pump DEX.

I go all-out for Wis, because it gives AC, AB, and increases the DC for your monk abilities (Stunning Fist, Quivering Palm). It also opens up some awesome feats at Epic, I think.

Fighter levels will get you the weapon spec stuff, but it will also lower your DC's by two if you take 4 levels of fighter. But it will also improve your BAB by .... 2? I think?

[Valefort]

The typical DEX monk split is monk 25 / Shadowdancer 5, it's extremely survivable with HiPS good AC and epic dodge, the damage is not the highest but it does the job.

WIS monks have comparable AC, better damage and DC on monk abilities (stunning fist etc) but they don't have HiPS or epic dodge and thus less survivable than its DEX counterpart (but don't misunderstand me, it's still very survivable overall because you can just run away at the speed of light if there's an issue).

So, which is better ? No answer, it's more a matter of taste.

[elsteveo]

Thanks guys for the input.

Heres a Wis Monk I worked up.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?269888

Any suggestions?

[Nyeleni]

This is a a modified copy of a monk divine champion

I play a human version atm. Very survivable. Solos the dracolich, frost king among others. Goes down against high ab enemies like the dragons in the Forest of Wyrms or Avernus without help (and even with help sometimes).

I am missing Blazing Aura in your build. Helps a lot, damage wise.

[DeepFriedMoose]

Any suggestions?

My only suggestion would be to time your feats with fighter levels. You can take Weapon focus and Firey Fists on Monk levels -- Use the Fighter levels to take more fighter-only feats (e.g. your 21st level could be used to take Epic Weapon Focus, and Epic Weapon Spec.). Other than that, it looks pretty fun, from where I'm sitting!

[chad878262]

Thanks guys for the input.

Heres a Wis Monk I worked up.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?269888

Any suggestions?

What feat are you taking at 18?

You really aught to take Blazing Aura, which only requires 23 WIS on BGtSCC

You want Expose Weakness (why would you take Epic Prowess and not EW?)

If you are not taking Circle Kick you don't need 15 DEX, you could leave it at 14 and either put INT to 12 for more skills or take a point from elsewhere to start WIS a point higher.

If you don't have the monk belt, I wouldn't build for it (which you haven't) and thus you can wear the belt of growth so you want odd STR and CON.

Dodge is kind of a pointless feat, you can grab something else.

Extra Stunning Attacks isn't terrible, but I doubt it's needed as you are going to have a lot of uses, unless your empty feat at 18 Ki Step and you plan to spam it...

Firey Ki Defense is not that great...If it is useful you are getting hit...Your a monk, you should not be getting hit! Think about it, you are paying for a feat that costs uses of your stunning fist and does d6 damage to an enemy each time they hit you. That is 3.5 fire damage, while they are likely doing far more damage to you and mobs on this server have a metric ton of hit points.

You have Toughness, but no Steadfast Determination. A mistake in my opinion. (and Valefort recommends it!)

For your consideration there is a +4 WIS medallion that can be purchased if you want to go with an even final WIS Score.

You have no rogue levels so spending 30 points to get 15 disable device is pointless. You must have a level in Rogue to be capable of disabling a trap with DC of 20 or more. Putting those 15 points in spellcraft gives +3 save vs. spells. If it were me I would also want to max heal skill to make use of high WIS for really good healing off +1 heal kits... With 30 WIS and 33 points that is 43+d20 hit points in combat, 63 hit points out of combat, and you can use two heal kits per round.

I also agree with Valefort that M/SD and M/F are equally viable. WIS M/F is better at offense thanks to Blazing Aura, and pre-epic thanks to stunning fist and Fiery Fist(so you should make sure you take Blazing Aura!) While DEX M/SD is better at defense thanks to HiPS and Epic Dodge, but misses out on the WIS synergy with DC's, blazing Aura, etc.

I played around with trying to get Blazing Aura and Epic Dodge, I forget if I was successful and the overall build was crippled or if I couldn't make it work, but either way I wasn't pleased with how the result looked in the builder, so best to go with one or the other, in any case.

Also, DFM he can't get Epic Weapon Focus or Specialization as they require 8 and 12 Fighter levels, respectively.

[DeepFriedMoose]

Also, DFM he can't get Epic Weapon Focus or Specialization as they require 8 and 12 Fighter levels, respectively.

Well shut my mouth! Show's how much I know! X[

[chad878262]

Also, DFM he can't get Epic Weapon Focus or Specialization as they require 8 and 12 Fighter levels, respectively.

Well shut my mouth! Show's how much I know! X[

Wasn't my intent at all! Just wanted to make sure elsteveo didn't try to grab feats his build doesn't qualify for!

[elsteveo]

Thanks guys for the input here is a rejig of the original build with your input.

http://nwn2db.com/builder/?id=269888

[chad878262]

Is Zen Archery and Point Blank Shot a stand in for other feats or are you actually taking those?(you shouldn't)

Is there a reason for sticking with 15 DEX? Don't want to fork over the cash on +4 DEX bracers? 2 extra INT points gets you skill points for +3 saves vs. spells which is pretty nice as SR36 is decent, but not immunity by any means.

[DeepFriedMoose]

Wasn't my intent at all! Just wanted to make sure elsteveo didn't try to grab feats his build doesn't qualify for!

Oh, no, no! I didn't take it that way at all. I'm just really beginning to wonder if I'm actually just bad at D&D! lmao

I appreciate your expertise, chad. I'd have felt bad if I led someone the wrong way, too. I'm glad you caught my mistake.

[K'yon Oblodra]

Wasn't my intent at all! Just wanted to make sure elsteveo didn't try to grab feats his build doesn't qualify for!

Oh, no, no! I didn't take it that way at all. I'm just really beginning to wonder if I'm actually just bad at D&D! lmao

I appreciate your expertise, chad. I'd have felt bad if I led someone the wrong way, too. I'm glad you caught my mistake.

I vouch for DFM, he has no clue what he is doing... Kinda like me XD

[Steve]

A WIS monk is definitely best, unless you want uber Hide/Move Silently skills.

Monk 20 / Assassin 10 is killer-diller with HiPS.
Monk 20 / Divine Champion 10 is munchy-punchy great.

You can also make a straight Monk 30 with high-as-possible Wisdom, and pretty much be stellar at most things.

I've played them all, and really, you have to consciously make a bad build, in order for a Monk to not be viable.

[chad878262]

Monk 20 / Divine Champion 10 is munchy-punchy great.

Wouldn't this still be better as M20/F4/DC6? Only 2 extra epic DC feats for more Great WIS, but Melee Mastery-Unarmed is +2 AB, +2 Damage (not to mention +2 damage more from weapon specialization), those two extra Gr. WIS feats would be +1 AB, +1 DC and 1 round longer duration for Blazing Aura. Also, is the 2 Great WIS feats from DC 4 and 6 (or 4 if you go for DC10, dropping Fighter) worth dropping SR from 36 down to 30? 36 SR is really good and can help against even epic CR caster mobs, 30 is going to be quite a bit less effective.

Just curious as I am only theory crafting here while you have the actual in game playing experience...