Spell selection for summoner type/mele Sorc

[Mork]

I'm Having a bit hard time to make a selection of my spells that focus around buffing. Plan is to make sorc that will be fighting with his summons. Build is Sorc/Eldrith Knight/Pale Master/Blackguard. My CL for Wail of Banshee will be 30 with Blackguards Aura and I'm wondering if its worth it. Char will have 21str/cha for EDM.

When it comes to my CL it will be charisma 21 (+3 cha item) and for close range +2 from blackguards Aura.

I'd appreciate if someone playing sorc could take a look at this list (I've also noted spells I plan to use with wands)
What I'd miss? Is there something I should not take for some reason?


1: Grease, Protection from Alignment, Ray of Enfeeblement,Shield,True Strike
2: Blindsight, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Mirror Image,Bear Endurance
3: Improved Mage Armor, Greater Magic Weapon, Spiderskin, Haste (wand or stone of: Keen)
4: Greater Invisibility, Enervation, Elemental Shield, Assay Resistance (wands: least spell mantle, lesser spell breach)
5: Bigbys Interposing Hand, Lesser Mind Blank,Lesser Spell Mantle, FireBrand
6: Greater Heroism, Superior Resistance, Tensers
7: Shadow Shield, Energy Immunity, (Avasculate OR Etheral Jaunt)
8: Premonition, (Bigby's Clenched fist OR Greater Planar Binding OR Protection from Spells)
9: Mordekainnen Disjunction, (Wail of the Banshee OR Greater Sanctuary OR Bigby OR Foresight)

Especially level 7,8,9 make me unsure. I probably need either Etheral Jaunt or Greater Sanctuary.
Additional Questions:
1. Which Bigbys are most useful?
2. Do I need Foresight as Palemaster? I'm crit immune but how about sneak attacks? Is spell worth it (around 30 seconds of sneak immunity and some AC).
3. Do Greater Planar Binding scales with CL? Or will it always be same as summon from scroll? If yes then up to what CL it scales?
4. How http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Protection_from_Spells works? Will it actually add up to protection from being Drow?
I'll appreciate all your suggestions.

[Nyeleni]

2. Crit. immunity should give you immunity to sneak attacks as well.

[Blackman D]

sneak attacks are considered critical hits, so if you are crit immune you are sneak immune unless they have epic precision

that is why anything crit immune is considered the bane of rogues

[Mork]

That takes care of Foresight and recent changes get rid of Greater Planar Binding witch leaves:

7: Shadow Shield, Energy Immunity, Avasculate || Etheral Jaunt
8: Premonition, Bigby's Clenched fist, Protection from Spells
9: Mordekainnen Disjunction, Wail of the Banshee, Greater Sanctuary ||Bigby

Questions:
1. How http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Protection_from_Spells works? Will it actually add up to protection from being Drow? If this spell seems like not worth it what else at lvl 8 can I take?
2. What is a difference between lvl 8 and 9 bigby? I'm interested if I need 8 or 9 variant since I can switch to have either G.Sanctuary removing bigby 9 or Etheral Jaunt removing Avasculate. Any comments?

[Blackman D]

7: Shadow Shield, Energy Immunity, Avasculate || Etheral Jaunt

those are all good spells, ethereal jaunt and g. sanct is redundant tho so i would figure out which one you want and not take the other

8: Premonition, Bigby's Clenched fist, Protection from Spells

premo is good if you cant take shades, protection from spells is nice but i dont think i would ever take it as a stand alone spell, its just +8 vs spells and its not as if your save vs spells is gonna be bad since you will already have +6 vs spells from spellcraft, and then of course +6 from superior resistance

bigby 8 if i remember right is just a weaker version of 9, not a whole lot of options on 8 but i would pick something else

9: Mordekainnen Disjunction, Wail of the Banshee, Greater Sanctuary ||Bigby

mords is nice to have and wail, only need one or the other with jaunt and GS, and bigby 9 is pretty decent, grapple + damage

1. How http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Protection_from_Spells works? Will it actually add up to protection from being Drow? If this spell seems like not worth it what else at lvl 8 can I take?

not even sure what you mean? drow dont get a bonus vs spells, they get spell resistance, its completely different, either way PfS is better with shades

[Steve]

It doesn't seem like the DCs will be that high on this build, as you explain it. It is pretty difficult to get decent DCs and be a gish.

[Mork]

It doesn't seem like the DCs will be that high on this build, as you explain it. It is pretty difficult to get decent DCs and be a gish.

Yea that is why I only get Wail of Banshee and Greater Bestow Curse - tested in YEGS it shows 29 DC (28 for GBC). Not much but its not like I don't have other tools for the job if it fails.
On bigbys I don't care about damage and only want hold effect so considering this would going for lvl 8 bigby instead 9 change much? (except like 1 DC on hold effect?) Asking cause lvl 8 has really not much to offer for my build. Also decided to leave Avasculate due to poor ranged touch (+22)

Shades is a spell I've missed that looks quite sweet. That potentially leaves:
7: Shadow Shield, Energy Immunity, Etheral Jaunt
8: Greater Bestow Curse, Greater Shout, Bigby
9: Mordekainnen Disjunction, Shades, Wail of Banshee

I'm only concerned on DC of hold on lvl 8 bigby compared to 9. I can do damage from other sources.

Any comments after those changes?

[Blackman D]

i cant remember how the hold part works

but if you are taking shades then remember it also gives shield, so you dont particularly need shield on level 1 -but- its nice to have it still in case shades gets breached and every bit of shades is on the breach list

[Tsidkenu]

Don't take Bigby 8 if you're not a DC caster. While Bigby 8 (Extended) is the single most damaging spell in the game (CL 38 Evocation Red Wizard archmage with Extend Spell would do a whopping 76d8+836 damage over 76 rounds, compared to Bigby 9 which would be 76d6 +456 over 38 rounds), the stun saving throw is calculated -every- round and is vs Fortitude. Bigby 9 does not give a saving throw, just an opposed grapple check + damage, thus making Bigby 9 the far more reliable choice for single target crowd control (alongside Bigby 6 & 7).

The chances of landing a successful Bigby 6, 7 or 9 are all enhanced by landing Ray of Enfeeblement first, lowering the targets strength. This does not apply to Bigby 8 with its fort save each round. Mobs have bloated fort saves on BG so you're not going to have much success with Bigby 8 if you're not a dedicated Evoker DC mage.

[Mork]

Got it - that makes:
7: Shadow Shield, Energy Immunity, Etheral Jaunt
8: Greater Bestow Curse, Greater Shout, Army of Death (purely for RP since multiple low lvl mobs will probably be just trash but I can't see anything better on list for 8 lvl)
9: Mordekainnen Disjunction, Shades, Bigby

Greater Bestow Curse is DC 28 - nothing special but perhaps will work on someone to improve bigbys. Got rid of Wailing Banshee and just gonna pick Vampiric for it.
Makes sense now?

[Steve]

Don't take Bigby 8 if you're not a DC caster. While Bigby 8 (Extended) is the single most damaging spell in the game (CL 38 Evocation Red Wizard archmage with Extend Spell would do a whopping 76d8+836 damage over 76 rounds, compared to Bigby 9 which would be 76d6 +456 over 38 rounds), the stun saving throw is calculated -every- round and is vs Fortitude. Bigby 9 does not give a saving throw, just an opposed grapple check + damage, thus making Bigby 9 the far more reliable choice for single target crowd control (alongside Bigby 6 & 7).

The chances of landing a successful Bigby 6, 7 or 9 are all enhanced by landing Ray of Enfeeblement first, lowering the targets strength. This does not apply to Bigby 8 with its fort save each round. Mobs have bloated fort saves on BG so you're not going to have much success with Bigby 8 if you're not a dedicated Evoker DC mage.

It says here that Bigby's 9 does have a DC check/"saving throw" every round. Am I missing something?

[Mork]

Good question. It also says so here:
http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Bigby's_Crushing_Hand
while there is no save on bigby 7:
http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Bigby's_Grasping_Hand

Basically I want to select one with most reliable crowd control effect for 21 cha sorc.

[Tsidkenu]

Yes, its a grapple check which any caster worth their salt won't fail except against a full Str paladin or perhaps an equally high STR dragon or epic boss (balor?). Failing the grapple means the target is completely pinned and can take no actions (even if they have immunity to paralysis). They may attempt to break the grapple each round thereafter (unlikely, especially if you follow up with Ray of Enfeeblement + Negative Energy Burst). Not the same as a DC ~30 fort save vs stun unless you're targeting a low fortitude foe, of which BGTSCC has very few especially at epic levels.

Bigby 9 has been long held as the golden bullet of many PvP and PvE battles, especially if your target does not (or cannot) use Spell Mantle to block it.

[Mork]

You're talking about grapple check but there is clearly:
Save: Fortitude in http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Bigby's_Crushing_Hand

What does it stand for?

[Tsidkenu]

Cast the spell in JEGS and see for yourself
PS: There isn't one