Moon Blade

[Blauwhof]

Hey guys,

I've recently joined the server and I had a question about the spell moon blade from the cleric moon domain. When I cast it it doesn't really seem to do anything other than the visual effect of having it in my hand. When I cast it while having my mace equipped I still make regular mace attacks. When I tried casting it with an empty hand it did unarmed attacks.

Does anyone have a tip on how to use this spell or is it perhaps a bug?
If needed I can make a screenshot later to show what I'm experiencing.

Thanks in advance!

[Valefort]

Hello ! There's an update pending regarding Moonblade so don't lose time on this, try it again after the update hits

[Blauwhof]

Alright, thanks for the quick reply

[LuvHandles]

Well, until the change is in ...

With the current implementation, when you cast moonblade a button will appear on your screen. You'll have to look for it because it doesn't stand out in the UI, though I believe by default it is near the top center of your screen (I've moved mine). You have to click this button to queue up moonblade attacks. If you are already attacking with a weapon, you need to cancel your normal attacks because the moonblade attacks will not interrupt normal attacks.

Valefort ... is there any preview on these moonblade changes that are coming? You have piqued my curiosity.

[dedude]

The spell no longer uses a button for attacks. It now creates an actual moonblade in your hand and you attack with it like normal. This also means you now have the number of attacks as dictated by your BAB. Your physical attacks with it have no effect, while the moonblade attacks are performed "behind the scenes", so the drawback is that the damage can be out-of-sync with your actual attacks.

[Theodore01]

Is this info from the wiki still correct (regarding damage and a possible spell failure) ?

If you are proficient with any type of sword, you can wield the beam as if it were any type of sword and thus gain the benefits of any special sword skill you might have, such as Weapon Focus.

Attacks with the moon blade are melee touch attacks. Its strike saps vitality or life force, causing no visible wounds but dealing 1d8 points of damage plus 1 point per two caster levels (to a maximum of +15) to any type of creature except undead. Undead are visibly wounded by a moon blade. Their substance boils away from its touch, and they take 2d8 points of damage plus 1 point per caster level (to a maximum of +30) per blow. The blade is immaterial, and your Strength modifier does not apply to the damage. A successful moon blade strike temporarily scrambles magic. (Spell failure 20% + total damage from the blade, for 9 seconds)

[dedude]

Yes that is still correct.

[Nemni]

Will the flame blade also work like that in the future? I mean an actual blade and attacks dependant on BAB.

[dedude]

I'm not aware of any plans for flame blade at this time. At the very least we should let the new moonblade go live and let people test it out first. If you guys like the implementation I see no reason we couldn't update flame blade as well.

[LuvHandles]

Sounds like a great change to me. The mooonblade begins to lose its luster once you start getting 3-4 attacks per round which you have to give up because the current implementation makes the attack a full round action. This change should make it viable at higher levels. Looking forward to trying it out and giving some feedback!

[wangxiuming]

This makes me want to make a Selunite!

[Blauwhof]

Thanks for all the info guys, you're very helpful peeps

[LuvHandles]

So, the new moonblade is much more effective. Thank you all very much for overhauling it. I will definitely be using the blade to hunt undead once again.

I do have a few questions about the blade now, based on this part of the spell description:

Anyone who can cast moon blade can wield the beam with proficiency. However, if you are proficient with any type of sword, you can wield the beam as if it were any type of sword and thus gain the benefits of any special sword skill you might have, such as Weapon Focus.

Critical Hit???
Previously the moonblade melee touch attack could crit on a natural 20 and the Magic damage would double. Now when I crit, the log shows a crit but the new Positive Energy damage is not doubled. Should it be? Or does the blade no longer crit by design?

And, if the blade should crit, then should Improved Critical (Bastard Sword) double the threat range of the melee touch attack to 19-20? (I don't have this feat so I couldn't test it with the old implementation and I cannot test it now either)

Attack Bonus???
Taron has BAB 18, +6 Wis bonus, and Weapon Focus Bastard Sword. I believe these are the values that contribute to his AB with the moonblade of +25. Taron also has the Epic Prowess Feat. Should this also be added to his AB with the moonblade since it is applied to all melee weapons?

Hidden: show

<Tip for moonblade users: your AB with the moonblade seems to be calculated when the spell is cast, so be sure to buff your wisdom before you summon the moonblade> THIS WAS INCORRECT

Damage???
Taron also has caster level 19 (15+4 from practiced spell caster) which gives him a base damage range of 21-35 against undead, and that is exactly what I am seeing. But he also has Weapon Specialization Bastard Sword, should that add into his damage giving him a range of 23-37?

[dedude]

So, the new moonblade is much more effective. Thank you all very much for overhauling it. I will definitely be using the blade to hunt undead once again.

I do have a few questions about the blade now, based on this part of the spell description:

Anyone who can cast moon blade can wield the beam with proficiency. However, if you are proficient with any type of sword, you can wield the beam as if it were any type of sword and thus gain the benefits of any special sword skill you might have, such as Weapon Focus.

The Moon Blade benefits from normal/greater/epic weapon focus in a sword type weapon.

Critical Hit???
Previously the moonblade melee touch attack could crit on a natural 20 and the Magic damage would double. Now when I crit, the log shows a crit but the new Positive Energy damage is not doubled. Should it be? Or does the blade no longer crit by design?

The Moon Blade does crit on a natural 20, just not against creatures that have immunity to critical hits.

And, if the blade should crit, then should Improved Critical (Bastard Sword) double the threat range of the melee touch attack to 19-20? (I don't have this feat so I couldn't test it with the old implementation and I cannot test it now either)

No, imo it's already stretching it to allow the weapon focus feats to help attacking with this lightsaber.

Attack Bonus???
Taron has BAB 18, +6 Wis bonus, and Weapon Focus Bastard Sword. I believe these are the values that contribute to his AB with the moonblade of +25. Taron also has the Epic Prowess Feat. Should this also be added to his AB with the moonblade since it is applied to all melee weapons?

I don't know why you think your WIS bonus has anything to do with your AB. It is a standard melee touch attack done by your character. Only adjusted by the above mentioned weapon focus feats.

Hidden: show

<Tip for moonblade users: your AB with the moonblade seems to be calculated when the spell is cast, so be sure to buff your wisdom before you summon the moonblade>

This is a weird and incorrect tip, sorry m8

Damage???
Taron also has caster level 19 (15+4 from practiced spell caster) which gives him a base damage range of 21-35 against undead, and that is exactly what I am seeing. But he also has Weapon Specialization Bastard Sword, should that add into his damage giving him a range of 23-37?

Nope, see above.

[LuvHandles]

[table][tr][td]TLDR: I updated the Gameplay Notes on the Moon Blade page on the wiki[/td][/tr][/table]

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The Moon Blade does crit on a natural 20, just not against creatures that have immunity to critical hits.

Confirmed. It just doesn't say "Creature Immune to Critical hits" in the log when a critical hit is scored with the Moonblade against a crit immune creature, which is what confused me.

Hidden: show

<Tip for moonblade users: your AB with the moonblade seems to be calculated when the spell is cast, so be sure to buff your wisdom before you summon the moonblade>

This is a weird and incorrect tip, sorry m8

Yeah, I was very confused about how the AB was calculated, and I still have one outstanding observation about the AB calculation below. But this tip was definitely waaaay off!

I don't know why you think your WIS bonus has anything to do with your AB. It is a standard melee touch attack done by your character. Only adjusted by the above mentioned weapon focus feats.

I was trying to deduce the AB calculation because it seemed off to me. I gathered the following test cases: [tr][td]BAB[/td][td]Str Bon[/td][td]Feat[/td][td]AB Calc[/td][td]AB Actual[/td][td]Desc[/td][/tr] [tr][td]18[/td][td]3[/td][td]WF Bastard (1)[/td][td]22[/td][td]23[/td][td]+2 Str from ring[/td][/tr] [tr][td]18[/td][td]4[/td][td]WF Bastard (1)[/td][td]23[/td][td]24[/td][td]+4 Str from Bull's Strength[/td][/tr] [tr][td]23[/td][td]5[/td][td]WF Bastard (1)[/td][td]29[/td][td]30[/td][td]+6 Str & increased AB from Divine Power[/td][/tr] in each case the AB is off by 1. When I was testing last night, substituting my Wis modifier instead of my Str modifier seemed to account for the difference, and I incorrectly assumed that behind the scenes the casting ability was being used (as this is a spell). Then I saw that changes in my Wis score didn't affect the AB so I jumped to the even more incorrect conclusion about the AB calculation.

I now believe that difference I am seeing comes from Taron's Epic Prowess feat, which gives +1 to all attacks, apparently to include melee touch attacks and hence, the Moonblade.