Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Subject: Planar Binding does not summon a creature

Nachti wrote:Intentional.

http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning

A extraplanar creature can only be summoned if its within one step of the caster's alignment.

The previous set of summons was just a "step-in-between to this update".

Though I am aware that some alignments will have lesser choices then before so I will add a few more next update.

I'm not sure what I feel about this option. Sure, in the past we just had -1- option for each spell so anything more than that is a huge improvement!

However, I'm a bit sad at being cut off from summoning demons as a LE character. My Epic Gate choices have come down from 5 to 3 selections. And no more shadow demons which I liked to think had some religious significance to my character.

The neutral options are still a bit so-so. I can't see my character summon a qorrashi who is HUGE in the Underdark. For Greater Planar Binding, that's my only neutral option as LE. Which I suppose is good in a way as before that there was no neutral option at all.

Are we set on this restriction?

Is the True Name binding of creatures into gems meant to supplement this...?

Interesting that the subject came up since I was discussing it in IRC this morning. I personally think that having summons directly locked by alignment is a huge step backwards from what we had following the March 2016 update that allowed more RP freedom in what could be summoned and used and didn't force you to give your alignment away mechanically.

We may move away from it entirely or loosen the restrictions quite a bit. I'll prod the devs about it.

Endelyon wrote:Interesting that the subject came up since I was discussing it in IRC this morning. I personally think that having summons directly locked by alignment is a huge step backwards from what we had following the March 2016 update that allowed more RP freedom in what could be summoned and used and didn't force you to give your alignment away mechanically.

We may move away from it entirely or loosen the restrictions quite a bit. I'll prod the devs about it.

I agree with this to a point. I would not want to see a Good character summoning a Demon or Devil and the same for an Evil Character summoning a Planetar or other Angel for example. So the ones on the top and bottom of the spectrum of alignment should not be accessible but Everything in between is fine I think.

It does seem pretty weird that the Lawful/Chaos axis is as restrictive as the Good/Evil. There is very little stopping a LE character from wishing to and being able to sensibly deal with or use a CE Demon. For example.

As a note I am generally against the restrictions entirely but at the very least this does seem a bit intensive.

I must admit I am against restrictions too. Why shouldn't a good char be able to summon devils and demons or an evil one the counterpart. Maybe add that the summoner has to pass some save to control the creature.

If it fails the creature harms the summoner and disappears. I thought first of having it attack the summoner as an independent being but this could possibly be misused somehow.

Asmodea wrote:It does seem pretty weird that the Lawful/Chaos axis is as restrictive as the Good/Evil.

This, and being unable to summon more of the neutral options.

I don't think its necessary for my LE character to summon good aligned outsiders. If that ever becomes necessary, I'd prod a DM about it.


Endelyon makes a good point of that it gives away your alignment, which I hadn't considered but was always something which bothered me in the past with these spell.


Looking forward to seeing what the devs think. IMO if there's isn't a particular strain on the server by giving players many options, then there shouldn't be an issue with it.

Nyeleni wrote:I must admit I am against restrictions too. Why shouldn't a good char be able to summon devils and demons or an evil one the counterpart.

1) We are not talking about summoning. Summon spells have no alignment restrictions.
2) The called being is not allowed a chance to break free of the binding, which is should be allowed to. Planar calling spells are crazy dangerous.
3) A called planar being is not required to obey your command, you actually have to convince it, and most likely pay it. An angel is VERY unlikely to agree to help an evil caster, and we can't really represent this scenario well enough through scripting. You are all welcome to ask a DM to help you call on a being of opposite alignment, that is fair game. But just using the spell on your own comes with a few assumptions, like that the caster and called creature has a reasonable chance of coming to an agreement of service.


That said, the restrictions are going to be relaxed a bit, but not removed.

It used to be the case that if you summoned an imp (Lesser Planar Binding) without Pro from Evil it would immediately turn hostile after you summoned it and attack you.

Maybe a similar thing could be utilised in the case of evil summoning good (they turn hostile and attack if caster does not have Pro from Good; even then they will refuse and simply return to where they came from), and demons/devils will do the same, albeit with more willingness to bargain with a good or neutral-aligned summoner.

Actually I want to move forward to more polymorph changes & underdark prcs. I dont want to be hold back by summons anymore... and player dont want too much changes.

I will propably change the alignments once more and add some more creatures over the time, but no other change from my side anymore.

sorry for posting in this thread but i cant seem to find the thread where is says

Cast Epic Gate = no Solar summoned for

Neutral good

Chaotic good

alignments

That does not sound right Izzul. As Neutral Good, you should be able to do both Good summons.

Hawke wrote:That does not sound right Izzul. As Neutral Good, you should be able to do both Good summons.

i might need help looking at my characters that cannot summon these. please do help

I will fix it in a few days,izzul.

Nachti wrote:I will fix it in a few days,izzul.

thank you Chambordin, the only "other" lantern wielder i have ever seen

There are good reasons for a good character to summon an evil outsider, just as an evil character might summon a good one.

For example, a classic one is a good character summoning an evil outsider for the purpose of interrogation. Or to use an evil outsider to attack an evil enemy (pitting two enemies against one another). Even a LG character might do this. Not every LG character is a paladin or follows the paladin code. Something that is forgotten a lot, imo.

Evil characters, of course, would have no qualms using good outsiders for their own ends (corrupting them, using them as meat shields) perhaps in a similar tactic to how a good character might pit two enemies against each other.

If it helps sweeten the pot, planar binding has no alignment attached to it (you aren't making a deal with the outsider, you are forcing it to bend to your will).