Ranger Shield Combat Style

[Calantyr]

Since Paladin's now have the excellent Cavalier kit, I was hoping that Rangers could get something similar as an additional Combat Style that can be selected at 2nd level.

Level 2: Shield Bash & Shield Specialisation.
Level 6: Shield Charge & Knockdown.
Level 11: Shield Slam & Improved Knockdown.
Level 21: Shield Weapon Focus & Shield Weapon Specialisation.

I don't think this will be OP since the Shield Ranger will have far less damage output that a typical Two-Weapon Ranger. Using a shield will also interfere with the stealth abilities Rangers get at level 13 and 17 (Camouflage & HIPS).

I'd just really like to make a melee Ranger, but using two-weapons just feels goofy.

[metaquad4]

I think a shield combat style would be quite an excellent addition! If you don't mind me hijacking:

Two-Handed Combat Style:

Level 2: Power Attack
Level 6: Improved Power Attack
Level 11: Enhanced Power Attack
Level 21: Supreme Power Attack

Crossbow Combat Style:

Level 2: Crossbow Sniper
Level 6: Rapid Reload
Level 11: Crossbow Sniper Master
Level 21: Ranged Weapon Mastery

Insightful Combat Style:

Level 2: Weapon Finesse
Level 6: Insightful Strike
Level 11: Combat Insight
Level 21: Epic Precision (Makes Insightful Strike able to affect crit-immune targets)

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

They could also add a Beastmaster style :

Level 2 : Natural bond
Level 6 : Divine Warding (extended to Animal Companion)
Level 11 : Dire Companion (dire skins for animal companions in addition to mild bonuses)
level 21 : Epic Animal Companion

I would urge the QC team to think about additional styles for Ranger, because they would add much RP variety through an interesting class which Ranger is. It would also be fairly easy to implement, because combat styles are in a way kits of their own.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

As awesome as the insightful tree seems, giving it epic precision may take away from roguery. The 2 handed style has been suggested and asked for several times in the past, but I believe the usual response is QC thinks its overpowered.

(Don't take a look at those rage feats tho)

[metaquad4]

I don't think 21 levels of a none sneak attack class to get epic precision is going to take away from any rouger-y. 9 levels of sneak attack could then be taken after, but your sneak attack damage is very gimped compared to a proper sneak attacking build. That is a very kneejerk reaction to just seeing the feat, imo. 10 levels of rouge is going to be way better if you want to go sneak attack. You COULD get some dice with 21 ranger, but enough to make a massive impact. Max you'd be able to get is 5d6 sneak dice.

[chad878262]

Actually when it was discussed in QC last year there was no real issue with it power-wise, it was more an issue of not a lot of interest in it. Call it a matter of limited resources and picking/choosing what developers are willing to work on and what is the most interesting options. While the version we reviewed was not the same as posted here I just want to make sure to state it isn't a matter of power so much as there being more interest in working on other things. Ranger just got the Hunter kit as well as the Harper Scout and improvements to Cave Stalker so I can't say it's likely more will be added to Ranger in the short term,
but that is my opinion and not in any way representative of the staff or management of BGtSCC.

As always if there is enough interest from the community in a new Ranger combat style or styles it's possible someone from dev will pick it up and work with QC to come up with a balanced implementation, but as has been seen over the past year and a half it is not like there isn't plenty of new content going in so it's all about prioritization.

For my part pretty much every version of the Power Attack / Two-hander style ranger is weaker than a well build PTWF ranger. It gives up defense for offense, ending up struggling get any more than ~40-42 AC without spamming shield potions/wands so while it can get solid damage numbers I wouldn't call it OP and I don't think many in QC would either, though I don't presume to know that for fact.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

I don't think 21 levels of a none sneak attack class to get epic precision is going to take away from any rouger-y. 9 levels of sneak attack could then be taken after, but your sneak attack damage is very gimped compared to a proper sneak attacking build. That is a very kneejerk reaction to just seeing the feat, imo. 10 levels of rouge is going to be way better if you want to go sneak attack. You COULD get some dice with 21 ranger, but enough to make a massive impact. Max you'd be able to get is 5d6 sneak dice.

Let me be more specific then, epic precision can currently only be taken after first acquiring crippling strike, which can only be taken by having at least 10 levels in rogue (being one of the rogue bonus feats that become available at certain levels, starting with level 10 rogue). Then, it is consumed via an epic feat. Which admittedly, is the point of the level 21 ranger bonus feat. (One shot, perfect two weapon fighting).

In its current form though, epic precision is a feat solely available to rogues. Therefore to make it available to 21 ranger takes away from the rogue class. I don't remember if epic precision allows for crits to work, as well as sneak attacks, but if it does not then no there is no direct benefit to a pure ranger for epic precision. In this case the best route would likely be 8-9 assassin levels or otherwise to boost the effect.

My 'knee jerk reaction' was being against making a class specific feat available to another class. Even if it might actually benefit my character.

[CrimsonMist]

In its current form though, epic precision is a feat solely available to rogues. Therefore to make it available to 21 ranger takes away from the rogue class. I don't remember if epic precision allows for crits to work, as well as sneak attacks, but if it does not then no there is no direct benefit to a pure ranger for epic precision. In this case the best route would likely be 8-9 assassin levels or otherwise to boost the effect.

My 'knee jerk reaction' was being against making a class specific feat available to another class. Even if it might actually benefit my character.

Not just for rogues

Swashbucklers now receive Disarm at level 8, Epic Precision at 12, and evasion at level 16.

And swashbucklers get it for the same reason that rangers of a certain kind might like.

[YourMoveHolyMan]

My err, also my err on the thought that a 2h ranger style was overpowered, I looked into the old threads and it was making improved favored enemy a universally applied feat that was said to be overpowered.