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Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:13 am
by Rinzler
I'm in the process of planning a Drow DC Wizard and would appreciate some guidance.

I understand that W26/SD4 is very strong when it comes to DCs, and you get HIPS. I've also read that Blood Magus and Shadow Adept can be used as well to push DCs even higher. Blood Magus & Shadow Adept are both extremely intriguing to me RP wise as well.

I think Necromancy is the school of choice for me. Does that mean I should incorporate PM?

When it comes to integrating PRCs into a Drow Wizard - what would you say the best route is? Also, any links to some sample nwn2db builds for reference would be much appreciated as well.




Thanks in advance.

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:33 pm
by Tsidkenu
Key notes for DC spellcasters are Epic DC points every 3 levels past 20. So at CL 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, 38, 41, etc your spellcasting will get an extra DC point.

Shadow Adept 10 is great for necromancy because you get a total +7 caster level to it (as well as Enchantment & Illusion). Combined with Blood Magus 4, that's +8 CL you can add to your Necromancy spells, which is +3 DC points above a flat Wizard 30 (or wizard 26/ 4 x).

You can push this even higher if you take Archmage (another +3 CL at the loss of 1x level 5, 7 & 9 spell slots), making it +11 CL and therefore +4 DC. Such a route is feat intensive and you can get by with simply SA + BM.

You can get some great defensive clout with a build like W6/BM4/SA10/PM10. CL 38 necro/ench/illusion, immunity to criticals etc and those awesome pale master undead summons if you want a PM type build.

The downside is that SA is a lore/RP heavy class (requires serious bio preparation, DM application & we're talking about having your SA levels removed from your character, with no XP refund, if a DM catches you even -talking- about the Shadow Weave IG), and you will have permanent -4 CL to Evocation, Transmutation & Conjuration. Fortunately, playing a drow, most of the negatives of the class are fairly moot in the cut-throat environment that is the UD because you can walk around the wilderness with summoned undead/demons/whatever and no-one really cares :mrgreen:

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:53 pm
by Rinzler
Thanks for the insight.

I'm not intimidated by the SA Lore/RP Requirements. While new to NWN2 mechanics I'm an experienced DnD and RP player. However I do appreciate the heads up.

So plausible build options are:

W16/SA10/BM4

or what you recommended for a more defensive based character:

W6/BM4/SA10/PM10 - This build is extremely intriguing to me for roleplay purposes as well. A maniacal Wizard with intelligence levels that breach psychosis. In addition to being a Drow. I think the classes blend well together both structurally and through RP.


The latter is definitely more defensive like you pointed out, what would be the advantage of the former? Also, if I were to incorporate Archmage to the first option to push DCs even higher - how would you integrate it?

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:45 pm
by Egg Shen
The benefit to the former build would be extra feats. Extra feats from wizard levels 10 and 15, and extra feats for not spending them on pre-requisites you probably don't want (pale master) and you also won't need to spend a feat on Practiced Caster to max out your caster level.

But I was going to propose the exact split Valefort suggested as what I would play right now if I were in the market for a drow wizard. I really like Pale Master 10. That crit immunity is so clutch, not to mention the giant AC boost, and the summons are decent as well (pretty confident they've been modified here to make them a bit better). Blood Magus 4 is a nice spot to stop as you've dabbled enough to get the scars and blood draughts and a caster level boost without investing your whole career into it (although teleporting around via people's blood sounds super neat as well at level 10. Would need somebody whose done it to tell us if it's worth it, both mechanically and roleplay wise).

Shadow Adept seems to have nice roleplay synergy with Shadowdancer if you wanted to go the sneaky mage route. Drow get dex (must have 19 to qualify for Shadowdancer here) and intel as a boost, so it's the right race for it. With a build like that, I'd probably skip Pale Master (although I think it does get hide/ms as class skills??) as your defense will come as much from being unseen and establishing good positioning as it does from AC. Also, because you're already sacrificing 3 caster levels for Shadowdancer, and Pale Master would cost a few more (4?) if you wanted to max it out. Certainly Blood Magus and Archmage and all the others are options as well.

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:53 pm
by Rinzler
Egg Shen wrote: But I was going to propose the exact split Valefort suggested as what I would play right now if I were in the market for a drow wizard. I really like Pale Master 10. That crit immunity is so clutch, not to mention the giant AC boost, and the summons are decent as well (pretty confident they've been modified here to make them a bit better). Blood Magus 4 is a nice spot to stop as you've dabbled enough to get the scars and blood draughts and a caster level boost without investing your whole career into it (although teleporting around via people's blood sounds super neat as well at level 10. Would need somebody whose done it to tell us if it's worth it, both mechanically and roleplay wise).
Assuming I get approved for Shadow Adept - the W6/PM10/SA10/BM4 is the character I will be making. I keep getting stuck when building in on the nwn2db so obviously having a little trouble planning it out structurally.

You're right though - SA has good synergy with SD in the latter build you mentioned. I do think, however, that there is plenty of synergy between SA & BM / PM as well which excites me.

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:15 am
by Tsidkenu
Here you go.

Points to note:

This build is optimised to use a +4 Intelligence Helm (readily available from Thayan Enclave in Sshamath Markets for about ~400,000gp; it should be the first major item you should look at saving up for).

Feel free to raise/lower your DEX/STR/CON/CHA/WIS as you like to suit your RP. You can either aim for Odd stats (eg Str 9/ Dex 15/Con 13) and aim for +3 stat items (common enough) OR Abyssal Might spell, or go even stats and use +4 Bulls/Cats/Bears. Starting INT must be 20.

Make your background feat whatever you want (I chose bully because that's what drows do :mrgreen: )

Skills: Your free choice, besides the usuals of Concentration & Spellcraft. Pale Master will unlock the Hide & MS skills, which are good RP tools in the UD even if you are not a HIPSer, as are some of the custom Lore skills BGTSCC has. As this build does not have Able Learner, cross classing skills will cost 2 points each. I would recommend 10 ranks in Tumble (+1 AC) and 11 ranks in UMD if you can spare it (not essential). Your Spellcraft Skill synergy should boost your UMD by another 2 points to end at 13 and able to use wands/items from any class/alignment/race.

Level 1: Spellcasting Prodigy, Necromancy Specialist School; Opposed School: Your pick (I recommend Divination but Evocation is also a possibility due to -4 CL for that school, but you will lose out on having situational Bigbys & IGMS. You won't need Magic Missile as you should be using Negative Energy Ray instead to heal your undead summons. I'll leave that call to you.)
Level 3: True Believer (SA qualifying feat)
Level 5: Extend Spell (SA qualifying feat. You may choose Empower here, but as a DC caster you should be focusing on single shot spells that kill/fear/paralyse your foes so your summons can mop them up. Extend spell will help counter -4 CL for conj/trans, especially if you take SA at 6th)
Level 6: Toughness (BM qualifying feat)

At level 6 you must decide whether to advance your spellcasting, or advance your survivability.

To advance your spellcasting, start taking Shadow Adept at level 6 (1 Level of Blood Magus at 7 for Blood Component), and then continue SA until 9th level. At that stage you are FORCED by the 3b20 rule to take 3 levels of PM & 2 more levels of Blood Magus to have your split as Wiz 5/ SA 9/ PM 3/ BM 3 at level 20. Note that by taking this route your character will have a good spell book (Wizard 19 spellbook at 20th level), good DCs in Necro/Enchant/Illusion but -4 CL in Evo/Trans/Conj throughout. This is significant because when you take your first level of SA at 6th your Conj/Trans/Evo spells will have an effective Caster level of 2, which means hardly any duration at all! Hour/Level spells will still be fine, though (like Improved Mage Armor). Use scrolls of Spiderskin at this stage because they have 9 CL, +4 AC and will last 150 minutes per scroll (or until dispelled). Take Abyssal Might as a 4th level spell to help compensate for this fact because it lasts 10 min/CL (10x more than Bulls/Bears/Cats). Because you're UD, no one will care how often you use this spell.

The other drawback is not having those superb PM summons to help you throughout the levelling process, but having (Greater) Spell Focus Necromancy will give your undead summon spells a needed HD boost (BGTSCC custom change: Spell Focus Necro/Conj will advance the HD of creatures summoned from those schools).

Being in UD will be a distinct advantage because you can switch to using Animate/Summon Undead to tank for you, and the bonus CL from SA will boost their duration significantly. You can also use spells like Conjure Shadows/Summon Shadow pack as they switch to the Necromancy school for SAs (not their usual Conjuration school) for summoning oomph in specific battles. Utilise Negative Energy Ray (1st) /Negative Energy Burst (3rd) instead of Magic Missile/Fireball/Flame Arrow to heal your undead summons and also deal damage to mobs as necessary.

The Spellcasting option will find its defensive peak much later in your build (level 28) when you finally get Deathless Mastery and immunity to critical hits, but your general spellcasting power will be significant throughout, meaning you can take advantage of your boosted Necro/Ench/Illus DCs to sleep/confuse/fear/hold/dominate or just plain kill your foes while your summons work on the mop-up.

The survivability method pretty much just swaps the progression of Shadow Adept & PM. This route will have lower CLs throughout the levelling process (Wizard 16 spellbook at level 20 so up to 8th level spells, but you will get full spellbook into epics of course), but your AC will be higher, you will have strong PM summons to tank for you throughout the levelling process and, if you find yourself struggling a little, you can take an earlier 2nd level in Blood Magus for Scarification (simply swap an early 2nd level of BM for a later level of PM), which is the ability to write scrolls on your character's skin for use whenever you need them. You will receive Critical Immunity at level 21 if you take this route (it is the route listed on my link).

Because your first SA levels can come at levels 18-20 via this method, you can swap True Believer to a later feat and take Practiced Spellcaster earlier. You also will not suffer from -4 CL to evo/trans/conj for the early levelling process, meaning by the time that penalty comes into play your caster level will already be significant enough that it won't really matter (esp. when combined with Extend Spell to buff your summons with bulls/cats/bears).

The survivability route will peak in power in mid-late epics as your SA levels significantly boost your CL and your DCs, making you a true engine of destruction.

Good luck!

I might have missed some finer points; some of the more expert builders will pick up on those and post below if necessary.

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:15 pm
by Egg Shen
is giving up Assay Resistance (via divination) wise in the Underdark? Can you still use it on a wand if it's from a prohibited school?

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:52 pm
by Glowfire
Egg Shen wrote:is giving up Assay Resistance (via divination) wise in the Underdark? Can you still use it on a wand if it's from a prohibited school?
Wands and scrolls of your prohibited school can still be used.

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:14 am
by Valefort
Hmm that's not normal.

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:31 am
by Nachti
Tsidkenu wrote: Shadow Adept 10 is great for necromancy because you get a total +7 caster level to it.
Not that correct.
From the class you get +3 spellpower which counts for epic DC.
The +4 from the shadow weave does not count for it, as it already grants +2 to DC.

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:51 am
by mrm3ntalist
Nachti wrote: The +4 from the shadow weave does not count for it, as it already grants +2 to DC.
Exactly. the +4 counts for duration, dispels and damage but not DCs.

Re: Drow DC Wizard

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:50 am
by Tsidkenu
It doesn't make a difference. 34 CL (includes SA Spell Power +3 & Blood Component +1) with +2 DC from Shadow Weave User is the same as 38 CL overall (and the spell durations will still be CL 38 for necro/ench/illus). I don't get why you bothered to make that point since it is entirely moot.