Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Hi, thanks to a previous post I looked over Karond's magnificent version of a Dwarven Defender that I won't be expecting anyone to top here. However, the issues I have with his are primarily the non-dwarven deity. This is especially problematic because my friend's dwarf is already level 13, and has established through RP that he worships Dumathoin (The patron saint of Shield Dwarves). He of course worships pretty much all of the dwarf deities, but nonetheless he does not worship Istishia as Karond's did. This means he won't be able to get evasion via a cleric domain.

So basically he will otherwise follow Karond's lead example with a Fighter / Man-At-Arms / Cleric / Dwarven Defender.

Domain-wise I figured toughness (Dumathoin - Earth) and maybe Iron Will (Dumathoin - Law) are okay choices. Toughness at least saves him a feat for something else, but what? Perhaps monkey grip so he can use a greataxe + shield since he has been using a greataxe up until this point. Maybe slashing mastery, or maybe something else entirely. I defer to you awesome builders!

Starting stats are same as Karond's unless someone has an alternative suggestion:

STR - 16
DEX - 13
CON - 19
WIS - 8
CHA - 6

Now, min-maxing is whatever to me at this point. I would prefer not to over-do it, but I don't know enough about how to bump that wis or cha to reasonable levels without harming the build. So, I know I'm asking a lot here but I'm open to suggestions on this as well.

Finally, don't think that I wont' appreciate your advice, even if my friend doesn't end up going with it. For us newbies this assistance is pretty invaluable since it's always more fun when your character actually works lol!

Thanks!

Karond's dwarfen defender build without EW really does low damage. (i tried to skip EW myself )
An option to get it, is to skip cleric for a 3 lv. rogue or monk dip.

Slashing mastery is a must have, One hander is good also, if you don't want to use a shield.
There is a Tower with +3ac & monkey grip available.

Theodore01 wrote:Karond's dwarfen defender build without EW really does low damage. (i tried to skip EW myself )
An option to get it, is to skip cleric for a 3 lv. rogue or monk dip.

Slashing mastery is a must have, One hander is good also, if you don't want to use a shield.
There is a Tower with +3ac & monkey grip available.

Oh okay, cool! So the only downside to forgoing cleric is not having access to cleric wands right? A big downside no doubt, but is that the only one? Bc with rogue or monk dip you can get evasion and EW. So how is this build for leveling if it does low damage? So far our playstyle is I buff him up and he with frenzied berserker levels just cuts a violent swathe through all enemies. I don't wanna lose that lol. Maybe a Frenzied Berserker or Battlerager build would be better?

You lose cleric domains which could be a free feat... you can get umd 11 to use any wand.

No, without cleric you can't use cleric scrolls and heal skill is crossclass now.

Getting UMD to 10 for wand use is recommended.

I had no trouble leveling mine up to 30 overall.
Where EW helps tremendeously is at difficult boss fights (If you try them alone). Mobs barely need it at all.

If you manage to play in a party most of the time, then almost any build is doable.

Try a few different builds and see what playstyle you like most.

Theodore01 wrote:No, without cleric you can't use cleric scrolls and heal skill is crossclass now.

Getting UMD to 10 for wand use is recommended.

I had no trouble leveling mine up to 30 overall.
Where EW helps tremendeously is at difficult boss fights (If you try them alone). Mobs barely need it at all.

If you manage to play in a party most of the time, then almost any build is doable.

Try a few different builds and see what playstyle you like most.

Alright man, appreciate it. To clarify, I generally play in a group of 2. Namely, my wizard and my friend's fighter/FB. He is the "tank" and I play support, generally taking down the more dangerous enemies with an instant spell, or finishing off trolls etc etc. Primarily though I end up being a glorified buffer as he kills everything before I can get off a spell. I just want to make sure that his build isn't going to end up being bad for him when and if we aren't playing as a duo at later levels.

We are rebuilding him today, and while I am open to dwarven defender it is ultimately gonna be his call. I'm gonna present 3 options to him that all still fit his character imo:

1) A variation of Karond's Dwarven Defender build as discussed here.

2) Valefort's "A Dwarven Battlrager" Brb/BR/FB build

3) A variation of someone's F/FB/WD/WM

Any thoughts between those 3? The last one does get improved evasion!

note that without your buffs that Fighter/FB may not do so well against more difficult enemies... You are giving him more AC (IMA / Spiderskin), more AB (GMW, Gr. Heroism, Bulls STR), better Saves (Gr. Heroism, Superior Resistance), as well as potentially some spells giving him immunities, DR, and/or displacement. The way most players build Fighter/FB/WM builds makes them very susceptible in PvE due to lowish AC and Saves. However, there damage is INSANE, so when coupled with a mage to buff them up they are phenomenal. Your buddy might lament using your mage in favor of a Tank because there is no true tank in this game since there is no way to hold aggro. Your buddy is going to be doing more damage than your dwarven defender and so the mobs are going to focus on him. He will need to learn to use a shield instead of two handing and/or use wands often to keep his AC up. Enemy spell casting mobs will likely hit him with spells which he will rarely save against as well(they will focus on will/reflex save spells since he has high fortitude).

This isn't to change your mind, you can play what you want. It is to show that a Wizard could have a very high and mighty attitude (rightfully so) that buffing up that Fighter is the most efficient use of his spells to kill enemies. Why waste 6 spells killing ~12 enemies when you can buff up a fighter to kill 100 enemies with 6 spells?

chad878262 wrote:note that without your buffs that Fighter/FB may not do so well against more difficult enemies... You are giving him more AC (IMA / Spiderskin), more AB (GMW, Gr. Heroism, Bulls STR), better Saves (Gr. Heroism, Superior Resistance), as well as potentially some spells giving him immunities, DR, and/or displacement. The way most players build Fighter/FB/WM builds makes them very susceptible in PvE due to lowish AC and Saves. However, there damage is INSANE, so when coupled with a mage to buff them up they are phenomenal. Your buddy might lament using your mage in favor of a Tank because there is no true tank in this game since there is no way to hold aggro. Your buddy is going to be doing more damage than your dwarven defender and so the mobs are going to focus on him. He will need to learn to use a shield instead of two handing and/or use wands often to keep his AC up. Enemy spell casting mobs will likely hit him with spells which he will rarely save against as well(they will focus on will/reflex save spells since he has high fortitude).

This isn't to change your mind, you can play what you want. It is to show that a Wizard could have a very high and mighty attitude (rightfully so) that buffing up that Fighter is the most efficient use of his spells to kill enemies. Why waste 6 spells killing ~12 enemies when you can buff up a fighter to kill 100 enemies with 6 spells?

Just to clarify I am not playing a tank. I am playing my half-elf wizard, and my buddy is playing the f/fb atm. I am gonna stay with my wizard. We are just RCRing his dwarf to sort of optimize his build. I've already done this with my wizard (2 times! lol).

That's who I'm considering these builds for. Sorry for the confusion, but this is all on behalf of my friend. Btw, thanks for all the advice, Chad. I always appreciate your feedback!

So with that in mind, I'm glad buffing up my buddy is a good playstyle. I felt pretty useless in the early levels of wizard, but now I at least have such a varied spellbook that I can adapt us to the various different dungeons we've come across pretty nicely.

If you're with him most of the time then the F/WM/WD/FB is best in my opinion. That is the split of my main and he's pretty good when it comes to pve. With a buffer around, he's downright nasty. Btw, you don't get imp. evasion with the BG Whirling Dervish. I also built mine slightly different than the typical min/max FB/WM, in that I pumped his con and picked steadfast plus as many AC feats as I could manage. Let's face it, they don't struggle for AB or damage, so a drop in strength for con isn't hurting much. I use a shield most of the time because I still crit a lot for 100-110 damage a pop. The only buff I use for pve is keen edge, which is easy to get via a wand. I also us a lot of +universal saves items because that's where most fighters struggle in pve, the will saves.

I've tried the DD builds - they're great, but I'm simple and I like seeing big numbers pop up often.

AC81 wrote:If you're with him most of the time then the F/WM/WD/FB is best in my opinion. That is the split of my main and he's pretty good when it comes to pve. With a buffer around, he's downright nasty. Btw, you don't get imp. evasion with the BG Whirling Dervish. I also built mine slightly different than the typical min/max FB/WM, in that I pumped his con and picked steadfast plus as many AC feats as I could manage. Let's face it, they don't struggle for AB or damage, so a drop in strength for con isn't hurting much. I use a shield most of the time because I still crit a lot for 100-110 damage a pop. The only buff I use for pve is keen edge, which is easy to get via a wand. I also us a lot of +universal saves items because that's where most fighters struggle in pve, the will saves.

I've tried the DD builds - they're great, but I'm simple and I like seeing big numbers pop up often.

Thanks man, I appreciate the feedback. He just started critting for 120 with a greataxe and its nice to see for sure!

+1 to AC 81...

Dwarven Defender is great because you are nigh unkillable without worrying over buffs. However, the damage is really not great and, as a wizard your buffs can improve AC, AB and Saves. You will not improve his damage much, not over the long term. If you want an optimized build specifically for your 'team play' as opposed to solo play, AC81's build is difficult to beat. Maybe you could go Barbarian 21/AK4/Dwarven Battlerager 5, or B20/DC5/BR5 or replace Anointed Knight with Fighter in the first build, for example. I would NOT build a defensive fighter build if I was going to always have a caster with me willing to throw buffs my way. Go for strong offense either with F/FB/WM/WD or a Barbarian build. Barbarians are very strong on this server.

You've got to think, if you've got a wizard around a lot you can dump the shield and 2-hand. With a F/WM/FB like my build, you're doing 160-190 crits a few times a round. It gets insane. 600-700 damage a round is easily achievable with the right foes around. Even with a shield and using combat expertise, he crits for 80-100. And scimitar WM's crit A LOT! Of course you could min-max more to improve those numbers, or change weapons, or whatever.
All the mage has to do is give them displacement, haste and greater heroism and they're good to go. Much more efficient way for a mage to level - thats if you have a buddy, which you do!

AC81 wrote:You've got to think, if you've got a wizard around a lot you can dump the shield and 2-hand. With a F/WM/FB like my build, you're doing 160-190 crits a few times a round. It gets insane. 600-700 damage a round is easily achievable with the right foes around. Even with a shield and using combat expertise, he crits for 80-100. And scimitar WM's crit A LOT! Of course you could min-max more to improve those numbers, or change weapons, or whatever.
All the mage has to do is give them displacement, haste and greater heroism and they're good to go. Much more efficient way for a mage to level - thats if you have a buddy, which you do!

Aye, true that! We rebuilt him today as a F/FB with him being close to taking WD and then WM after. Thank you guys for all the helpful advice.

I abhore cleric dips with 8 Wisdom and 6 Charisma. Absolutely no RP sense.