More options for Dm Rewards.

[Argumantive]

I wanted to raise the issue that as of now, DM's are limited to giving items, xp, or gold.

I wanted to raise the option, and ask the community about an idea I had tha can make all PC's more unique potentially.

Supposed Dm's could reward with custom feats, from racial SR, to animal companion to any exclusive class feat.

Yes, I am aware this may Raise the usual whining of favoritism, that happens every time someone gets something I do not have.

But I think adding such an option for long standing plots would do good in the long run, by making PC's who did not RCR and stick around and accomplished things, be more unique.

My suggestion revolves around public plot-lines, and not faction ones. For example like Spartacus ones, by placing clues IC, and whoever finds them, gets to enjoy them.

I am suggesting this mainly because such rewards are PC specific, and in case of RCR won't be carried on. Also, I believe in the judgment of Dm's not giving OP rewards for mini plots, but making PC's unique by means of RP as in common in PnP.

But in the current environment of grandfathered items which already make old players leagues above anything new ones can get, such a mechanism, would encourage long standing character in my opinion, and offer an option for unique concepts. )who didn't just want adopt a cat without taking druid levels etc?)


Edit:

To further emphasize my meaning.

Example one: Dm ran an event of saving a cat from a pack of orcs, said Pc saved the cat, said PC gets the animal companion feat of a cat, regardless of his class.

Example two: Dm ran an event of fighting a cult of liches, a certain PC through rolls, risks and RP, managed to resist said lich and it's power, said pc gots a custom feat, of +2 vs death or whatver.

Example three: Dm ran an event of pc's going through Tempuse's trials, one of the PC's succesfuly completed it over a few months, said PC, got a bonus feat of increased multiplier for his effort, reflecting the RP.

Example four: A PC heard a rumour about the cult of whatever demon, he porsues it, said PC per his interactions with abyssal opponents gets lore the planes +2 feat, or deflection 4 vs abyssal, or whatever.

The whole point, is suggest, the introduction of MECHANICAL feats, as rewards for MAJOR plotlines, available to all, in the fashion of first come, first served. I apologise if my meaning was not clear in the first place.

[chad878262]

It might be neat to occasionally create some background feats. Such as "Nobility - This character has been granted the title of 'Lord' by the Dukes of Baldur's Gate. OOC: Limitations placed". Obviously just one example that would be really rare, but a good RP reward that has no mechanical value, but from an RP standpoint future DM's will readily see that the character is in fact a Noble of Baldur's Gate (or Amn, if the plotline was in Beregost or Nashkel).

Some other idea's could be:

Hero of X: Granted to a character that takes a risk that could result in death while saving many others.

Scourge of X: Granted to a character that takes some action having a negative impact on an area, town, people, what-have-you.

Warden of (area): Maybe granted to a person who has shown a willingness and ability to protect a certain area or protect from a certain foe.

Criminal: You have been arrested either multiple times or in spectacular fashion and are a known criminal. Peasants shy away from you while guards keep a wary eye whenever you are spotted.


Really this would have to be a pretty special scenario as it would require a dev to add the custom background feat. Up to the DM's if such feats grant any mechanical value or not (I could see Noble granting +1 Diplomacy and Intimidate, hero granting +1 Appraise and Diplomacy (to represent the love of the people), etc. As I said, my guess is they would be enjoyed even with no mechanical value...However, it would be a situation where when the reward is granted a request has to go to Dev team and then that feat would not be available until next update. However, once created some generic feats as listed above could be assigned more easily.

[taintedseraphim]

Animal companions, yes please!

[dedude]

Feats without mechanical value make little sense. DMs are free to hand out titles and stuff. "You are now a lord of BG, here is a cloak with +1 diplomacy to signify your new title." They can also hand out items with feats on them if they wish. I think we have plenty of ways for DMs to reward players. And the DMs are always welcome to request special stuff, but that doesn't happen often.

[Steve]

But in the current environment of grandfathered items which already make old players leagues above anything new ones can get, such a mechanism, would encourage long standing character in my opinion, and offer an option for unique concepts. )who didn't just want adopt a cat without taking druid levels etc?)

In the current environment, if you RP well and invest in DM campaigns/storylines, or better yet, develop your own Player-initiated storylines which do/do not intersect with the Server Campaigns or DM campaigns, you CAN receive items of quality that bring you into mechanical might that will bowl over the current mobs/mechanics on the Server.

Long-standing Characters are just "awarded" a different kind of attention. And, that attention is probably more Player-toPlayer, than anything else.

There may be a few OP items on the Server, surely there are in the hands of some Players, but...as has been pointed out, so many many many items now available from Epic NPC Merchants/stores, actually rival or surpass the grandfathered items.

And yes, there are a few Players that through ACTUAL EFFORT have amazed a horde of Items that the majority will never attain...but why is that? I'd argue it is because the majority has not the time + energy + will to mine the Server for its possibilities and outcomes. Like, grinding for 4 months every day for 8 hours. These Players have gained a speciality, even if it is half-OOC acquired (as in RL quantity of time/energy/effort).

The question then, I'd offer, is not to ask to get more—since there is already plenty—but to ask how YOU can get what you specifically want, particularly want, for your PC.

However, what you're very unlikely to get, at least with any ease, is Items or Feats of more power. Getting Epic Level is pretty powerful enough, as it is, imho. And DMs actually can help you get there, by giving XP. Which I've noticed is much higher than in the past, so I think there must have been a positive change there.

And if you're looking for RP awards—titles, land, recognition, etc.—that can really only be given out as long as they do not confer mechanical power, but IC power.

Right?!?

[Argumantive]

But in the current environment of grandfathered items which already make old players leagues above anything new ones can get, such a mechanism, would encourage long standing character in my opinion, and offer an option for unique concepts. )who didn't just want adopt a cat without taking druid levels etc?)

In the current environment, if you RP well and invest in DM campaigns/storylines, or better yet, develop your own Player-initiated storylines which do/do not intersect with the Server Campaigns or DM campaigns, you CAN receive items of quality that bring you into mechanical might that will bowl over the current mobs/mechanics on the Server.

Long-standing Characters are just "awarded" a different kind of attention. And, that attention is probably more Player-toPlayer, than anything else.

There may be a few OP items on the Server, surely there are in the hands of some Players, but...as has been pointed out, so many many many items now available from Epic NPC Merchants/stores, actually rival or surpass the grandfathered items.

And yes, there are a few Players that through ACTUAL EFFORT have amazed a horde of Items that the majority will never attain...but why is that? I'd argue it is because the majority has not the time + energy + will to mine the Server for its possibilities and outcomes. Like, grinding for 4 months every day for 8 hours. These Players have gained a speciality, even if it is half-OOC acquired (as in RL quantity of time/energy/effort).

The question then, I'd offer, is not to ask to get more—since there is already plenty—but to ask how YOU can get what you specifically want, particularly want, for your PC.

However, what you're very unlikely to get, at least with any ease, is Items or Feats of more power. Getting Epic Level is pretty powerful enough, as it is, imho. And DMs actually can help you get there, by giving XP. Which I've noticed is much higher than in the past, so I think there must have been a positive change there.

And if you're looking for RP awards—titles, land, recognition, etc.—that can really only be given out as long as they do not confer mechanical power, but IC power.

Right?!?

I think you miss my point friend with your argument. I advocate playing your character sheet. Thus I advocate RP rewards equal mechanical rewards.

As per you specialty argument, the whole existence of grandfathered item is an abomination to any balance scheme, for the sole reason that if a player with grandfathered items, stops playing right now, he will l still have advantage over a player who plays 24/7 for 4 years, for the sole reason he has access to what -no one- has access to.

The argument of the hell shop is redundant for the simple fact that admantine grandfathered wpeaon in the hands of a cleric/mage outclasses any hellshop or DM reward possible.

Getting level 30 is a given with basic amount of gameplay, epic levels ar a given fact which has no standing, since it only requires time, over any effort/ingenuity/RP or anything. Grind enough you get 30.

The whole thread is about Mechanical rewards, for grand scale RP. I see no reason why -anything- that exists, should be unattainable by new players as a rule. I will further emphasize, in PnP it is easily possible to get feats through RP pursued. My standing is clear, PC's should be unique, just because you and me are both rangers, our builds and sheets, should not necessarily be the same just we are both lvl 30.

"In the current environment, if you RP well and invest in DM campaigns/storylines, or better yet, develop your own Player-initiated storylines which do/do not intersect with the Server Campaigns or DM campaigns, you CAN receive items of quality that bring you into mechanical might that will bowl over the current mobs/mechanics on the Server."

I am talking about leveling the playing field not by taking away from what was done, but by giving, anyone, the ability to get everything existing, be it through items or feats. or DM rewards. JUst because you happened to play at 2012, does not mean, your characters should have access to what no one, will ever, have the possibility to attain.

The whole thread is mainly about allowing DM's to give customized mechanical feats already existing through RP. The example of grandfathered gear was given, to emphasize the playing field is uneven from the start, thus addressing the issue of people whining about disparity as a result.

[Glowfire]

Supposed Dm's could reward with custom feats, from racial SR, to animal companion to any exclusive class feat.

I really don't want to see this.

In the past, very few players have had some 'negative' RP impact feats removed from some classes, such as the Palemaster's undead arm. If you take the Palmaster PRC, you should take all the consequences and RP them out IMO, including the undead arm. That or there should be a Nexus NPC toggling that on/off for -every- character.

The above struck me as not fair to all the other players on the server and that it happened rather quietly, and that not all DMs were even aware of it.


Attempting to create ultimate fairness is an ideal but I don't want to play on a BGTSCC where DMs can hand out special powerful feats (racial SR?!) because there would always be a perception of unfairness - as there already is with people comparing who gets 'all the DM attention'.


This isn't PnP but an MMO, where DMs can't have the close relation and play experience with all the players as they would around a table. Customization is thus less.

[Maecius]

I'm not opposed to the DMs discussing this internally if they choose to do so.

In the past, it has been avoided for the reasons you suggested.

That being said, I suppose one thing going for it is that DM awards like the ones you talk to would not be transferable (if a PC were to RCR or retire, all their "special feats" would be removed from server circulation -- where their powerful items and gold will likely be passed down to a new PC). Of course, a long-time, single-character player could end up with a crazy powerful and customized PC that no other PC could really hope to match by their efforts alone (it would require DM attention for any other player to reach their level). And in that way it would create a class of "haves" and "have nots," which I'm not really comfortable encouraging personally.

The inclusion of Epic Stores, like the one in Avernus, (which I also personally dislike, but OK'd) was an effort to close this gap a little bit, so that people who play on off-DM hours or who just never seem to be in the right place at the right time for DM events or campaigns aren't left in the dust. This would risk opening a new gap.

[aaron22]

from my experience as being a DM event regular and now isolated away from events, i can conclude that what you gain from these events is monumental compared to being totally absent from them. there does not need to be any MORE reward to being in these events.

the events provide something that is irreplaceable on any other aspect of the server. the unexpected.

cherish what you have.

[Steve]

. JUst because you happened to play at 2012, does not mean, your characters should have access to what no one, will ever, have the possibility to attain.

I still really question what you know is out there, versus what you imagine is out there.

On one hand, I agree that no one player should have things no other player has or can ever achieve.

On the other hand, I believe strongly in Effort and Investment. If a player has been investing in BGTSCC for 5+ years, I'd EXPECT them to have things a new player does not. That just makes sense to me.

For example, I don't grind for gold. So should I expect that I also get stuff provided from an Epic Merchant, in exchange for coin? So here, I will most likely never attain any of those Items. That is by choice.

And NOT investing in RP and time for years is also a choice.

That said, RP should not result in mechanical rewards. Because then, someone has to start to judge what is good RP or not to result in "equal" reward, and that can of worms shouldn't be opened!!

It would also setup a paradigm that ostracized new or challenged RPers, probably succeeding in turning off many more players who feel they are being judged unfairly for their attempts. Ick.

[Calodan]

I think this idea is great! Look in my opinion the DMs are afraid to award things guys. They award something to someone and another person cries foul play. I do not feel this is fair to the DMs at all! If we can just realize that people get awarded and if you want that you need to go out and try to be part of it!

I have been a big proponent of introducing DM tokens of a sort that a player can choose as their reward end of event. Tokens can pop in chests. Occasionally for fishing and even RP! Players trade these tokens for items and or custom items. DMs establish a price for each thing. So many tokens. Like adding 1d8 elemental damage with VFX might cost 10 tokens? Make them non-droppable items as well so they do not become the currency over gold. If players can sell them then gold becomes useless. Not the weapons or items they can get mind you....those can still be under our current Karond Gold Hands Trader System. I think a token system could alleviate a few but not all favoritism complaints. The other being a solid item crafting system for us the players....

[metaquad4]

Dalelands did something similar to this, with their RP token system:

Every 2000 RP XP (they had unlimited RP XP), you would get a lesser RP token. This could only happen once per week via the XP method. DMs who saw interesting, plot-hook worthy, or just generally something that grabbed other player's attention and caused further RP could also award these at their own discretion.

These lesser RP tokens could be used on:

1. 1000 XP
2. 2500 Gold
6. One lesser token can be used to grant one stack (99 units) of Bane ammunition (+2d6 damage vs. any race)
9. Three lesser tokens can be used to receive an item with +5 to a single Skill.
10. Five lesser tokens can be saved to create one Medium token (automatic).
11. Lesser RP-tokens can also be traded for spell scrolls:
• 1 lesser token buys you any one spell scroll from level 1-3
• 2 lesser tokens buys you any one spell scroll from level 4-6
• 3 lesser tokens buys you any one spell scroll from level 7-9

(Note, for these, I am cutting out options related to crafting, as they are not relevant to our server)

As you see above, five of these lesser tokens could produce one medium token. Medium tokens were also often given out as general event rewards.

Medium tokens could be used on:

1. 7500 XP
2. 25000 gold
4. One medium token can be traded for an item with a +3 bonus to one thing (Saves, Enchantment, AC, Ability, etc.)
5. A weapon with a 1d6 elemental (Fire, Acid, Cold, Electricity, Sonic) damage enchantment.
6. A weapon with a 2 Vampiric Regeneration enchantment or item with 2 regeneration (only one allowed per character with vampiric and regen)
7. A weapon with a 1d6 energy (Divine, Negative, Postive, Magic) damage enchantment.
8. An item with 30 bonus Hit Points
9. An item with DR 5/- to one energy (Divine, Positive, Negative, Magic) type.
10. An item with DR 20/- to one element (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Sonic)
11. An item with two +5 skill properties (example -> item with +5 Bluff, +5 Heal).
• This counts as one property
• Skill stacking is not allowed with this on the same item (example - > Item with +5 Bluff, +5 Heal, +5 Perform, +5 Diplomacy)
• Enchanting on a +5/+5 skill item will have to be done with the assistance of a DM, as the engine counts it as two properties. You will still need a PC enchanter to do this. The DM is only there to place the property on.
14. One medium RP token can be used to request a new language, following documented study RP.
15. Two medium RP Tokens can be used to request an item with a combination of the above (4 through 12) properties on the same item.
16. Two medium RP Tokens can be used to request a weapon with two Elemental damages on it (these cannot be of the same type).
17. Two medium RP Tokens can be used to request a mundane mithral armor/shield.
18. Two medium RP tokens can be used to request an item with one of the following properties: Massive criticals 1d10, keen, damage immunity (10%), unlimited ammunition (not enchanted).
19. Three medium RP Tokens can be used to request a mundane weapon with two Energy types (two of1d6 Divine/Positive/Negative/Magic).
20. 3 medium tokens can be traded for a rare gem such as a star sapphire or a kings tear etc
22. Five Medium tokens can be saved to create one Epic token (automatic)

Epic tokens, aside from saving up from medium tokens, were often used as a reward for long-standing plot lines (the equivalent of our metaplots) for players who participated heavily in them.

1. 50.000 xp
2. 150'000gp
3. a feat or epic feat that you are eligible for (once per character only)
4. An RP Item. The DM team will be happy to review an item a player brings up that will only be useable in events for RP purposes. These items will be debated on a case by case basis and may take more time than epic items that go by these specific guidelines. Despite the time it may take, the team is willing to look into making something special for a player for a more rewarding roleplaying experience. Note that things such as 'Wish', lichdom, or anything out of hand will not be accepted as an option. Please think of our setting and what is appropriate when you make a request.
5. an epic item. Epic items are application only, simply note down your desired epic item according to the rules in the following and send that in as your application to the DM-team. Epic items have 3 properties XYZ. When creating an epic item you can choose one property within each of the sections below, no stacking of the same attribute on the same item, if it is not listed among the properties below you cannot get it on your item. Also keep in mind your epic item should make sense ICly so a paladins or good aligned priests request for a vampiric weapon is likely to be denied:

Property X

Hidden: show

+5 enhancement
+5 armor
+5 saves
+5 strength
+5 dexterity
+5 constitution
+5 intelligence
+5 wisdom
+5 charisma
+50 HP (see the additional rules below)
+25 skillpoints (UMD is not a selectable skill, also see the "additional notes")
+30% slashing, piercing or bludgeoning immunity
+ 25 resistance vs one type of elemental or sonic or divine or positive or negative or magic.
+On hit DC 30/10% 1 round (On hit properties to choose from confusion, Daze, Deafness, Doom, Fear, Hold, Silence, Stun, Blindness)
+4d6 of one type of elemental or sonic or divine or negative or positive or magic damage (special rules apply read the additional notes)
+3d6 slashing or piercing or bludgeoning damage(Cannot be combined with other d6 damage bonuses also special rules apply read the additional notes)
+4 regeneration (Special rules apply read the additional notes)
+4 vampiric regeneration (cannot be combined with positive energy damage, special rules apply read the additional notes)

Property Y

Hidden: show

+5 Attack bonus (Special note, see below)
+5 mighty (only available on ranged weapons)
+4 enhancement
+4 armor,
+4 saves
+4 strength
+4 dexterity
+4 constitution
+4 intelligence
+4 wisdom
+4 charisma
+ 40 HP ((see the additional rules below)
+20 skillpoints (UMD is not a selectable skill, also see the "additional notes")
+25% slashing, piercing or bludgeoning immunity
+ 15 resistance to one type of element or sonic or divine or negative or positive or magic damage
+On hit DC 26/10% 1 round (On hit properties to choose from confusion, Daze, Deafness, Doom, Fear, Hold, Silence, Stun, Blindness)
+2d6 elemental damage or 1d6 physical damage (Cannot be combined with other d6 damagebonuses also special rules apply read the additional notes)
+3 regeneration (Special rules apply read the additional notes)
+3 vampiric (cannot be combined with positive energy damage, special rules apply read the additional notes)
+ Mithral armor property

Property Z

Hidden: show

+4 Attack bonus (Special note, see below)
+4 mighty (only available on ranged weapons)
+3 enhancement
+3 armor,
+3 saves
+3 strength
+3 dexterity
+3 constitution
+3 intelligence
+3 wisdom
+3 charisma
+ 30 HP (see the additional rules below)
+15 skillpoints (UMD is not a selectable skill, also see the "additional notes")
+15% slashing, piercing or bludgeoning immunity
+5 resistance to one type of element or sonic or divine or negative or positive or magic damage
+On hit DC 20/10% 1 round (On hit properties to choose from confusion, Daze, Deafness, Doom, Fear, Hold, Silence, Stun, Blindness)
+keen (only available on melee weapons)
+1d6 elemental or energy damage (Cannot be combined with other d6 damage bonuses also special rules apply read the additional notes)
+unlimited ammunition (plain, bows, crossbows and slings only)
+ 2 regeneration (Special rules apply read the additional notes)
+ 2 vampiric (cannot be combined with positive energy damage, special rules apply read the additional notes)
+ Cold iron property
+ Alchemical silver property
+ Ironwood
+ wyvernhide
+ salamanderhide
+ weight reduction 80%

Personally, I though the RP token system was really good. It rewarded players for either saving or participating more heavily in events, it allowed people who weren't in events to still participate (via RP XP). If we wanted to adopt this system, of course, some of the above numbers (especially items) would need to be tweaked to better fit our magic level. This would allow DM rewards to be steamlined as well, so no one can get those horrible favoritism accusations (you gave him X and me Y! :'( ). Everyone gets the same reward, then they choose their reward from that.

----------------------------------

@Calodan, I agree. I do think that the server does at times cater to its worst population a little too much (among those are the folks who cry foul play at anything and everything that doesn't suit their OOC interests). Which is why I like the RP token system. . .you can't cry foul play if everyone gets the same token (which they then use to spend on different things)! Also, you brought up RP tokens as I was typing them. . .you cur!

[Wolfrayne]

As someone who has played on the server for a long time in a timezone where there are very few "Big events" it does suck somewhat to know i can never be around to see them through. I have always played characters who either start something or are there to see it finish (litterally)

As far as i know i have only ever been rewarded one item (a necklace for my shadow adept that was once a plot item for an event) which took me over a YEAR of solid RP to obtain. I have since given it away to another player who it is more fitting for due to the way events transpired.

It shouldn't be about feats. Items. Gold. XP or anything like that. It should be about the story. Leaving some kind of memory of characters who shaped the server. This is why i like seeing things like the memorials and such, i can look at the names and know i have seen these people, been there for some of the history. And while my name has never and probably never will be listed anywhere i at least can say i was part of it.

[metaquad4]

As someone who has played on the server for a long time in a timezone where there are very few "Big events" it does suck somewhat to know i can never be around to see them through. I have always played characters who either start something or are there to see it finish (litterally)

As far as i know i have only ever been rewarded one item (a necklace for my shadow adept that was once a plot item for an event) which took me over a YEAR of solid RP to obtain. I have since given it away to another player who it is more fitting for due to the way events transpired.

It shouldn't be about feats. Items. Gold. XP or anything like that. It should be about the story. Leaving some kind of memory of characters who shaped the server. This is why i like seeing things like the memorials and such, i can look at the names and know i have seen these people, been there for some of the history. And while my name has never and probably never will be listed anywhere i at least can say i was part of it.

In case you are not aware, as of now, these things already exist. People have gotten mechanical (and powerful) feats before for certain accomplishment (partial undeath is one I know). People have gotten items of a very epic quality (+4 CHA amulets with other stats, as an example). These are rewards that are usually given out when players RP doing something, then request the DMs pay attention. If the DMs do, and the RP is successful, then the player is netted a reward.

I have no issues with this system, personally. It does work to encourage players to be proactive rather than reactive (a reactive playerbase is one who will sit around the campfire waiting for someone to do something so they can hop in, a proactive playerbase will do something).

However, I do think that the server as a whole would benefit from a little nudging in the right direction. As I am sure we are well aware, the current system doesn't perfectly encourage players (many think it takes too long to, etc. or are unwilling to ask DMs for rewards, even.) These kinds of streamlined rewards actively encourage people to be proactive (even when DMs aren't around, because you know your RP can be witnessed and rewarded), rather than sitting around [the FAI campfire] and waiting for things to happen to them. They allow player's RP to be valued (or at-least, these rewards allow players to feel valued) and it also gives players a little carrot to follow on their journey (a goal to work towards). They also help the DMs to reward people, as they don't have to worry about what they'll give and who they'll give it to. It takes a bit of weight off a DM's shoulders (they don't even have to give XP [but they can if they want to!], RP tokens can be used to get XP if the player wants it as a reward).

I don't think this system should just give out tokens to EVERYONE in an event, though. I think players should meet a minimum level of participation, as we shouldn't encourage activity such as leeching (silently following along an event party for the rewards). Rewards are a powerful motivator for the community, and they can be used as such to help people grow as RPers and do more outside of events as well (RP in game, as well as proof of RP when DMs aren't on can be used to award tokens for).

[Diamore]

I have not received an item from a DM at any point since I began playing. The only time I am involved with DM events and major RP is when my sleep cycle is reversed while on holidays such as right now.

I would echo that no change in this space is necessary. The actual RP interactions and stories told alongside new people and characters is already enough, the items granted are lovely cherries on top.

RP based rewards such as being well known or nobility can easily be collected under a specific forum entry for precisely this. Placing such rewards on your character through background feats or more mechanical advantages exaggerates the divide between characters, that for some is unlikely to ever close.