Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Since the max level on BG is 30 and since a race has ECL, shouldn't the max level for a race w/ ECL be 30 minus ECL?

For example, max level for Aasimar should be 29.

edit: Otherwise we are creating characters that could potentially me ECL 33 (see Svirf ECL + 30).

Deep Gnomes are ECL +2 race here, they lost some of their AC.

Anyhow, a ECL +3 requires 528,000 to reach level 30, and I think that might be the maximum amount of experience you can have in this game, even as a non ECL Race. Thus non ECL race characters should be able to reach level 33.

But I doubt there is going to be a change in this matter.

Sun Wukong wrote:Deep Gnomes are ECL +2 race here, they lost some of their AC.

Anyhow, a ECL +3 requires 528,000 to reach level 30, and I think that might be the maximum amount of experience you can have in this game, even as a non ECL Race. Thus non ECL race characters should be able to reach level 33.

But I doubt there is going to be a change in this matter.

Non ECLs could reach that if 30 weren't the limit, sure. For non-ECLs, 30 is the limit so why isn't ECL +1 limited to 29?

Dagesh wrote:

Sun Wukong wrote:Deep Gnomes are ECL +2 race here, they lost some of their AC.

Anyhow, a ECL +3 requires 528,000 to reach level 30, and I think that might be the maximum amount of experience you can have in this game, even as a non ECL Race. Thus non ECL race characters should be able to reach level 33.

But I doubt there is going to be a change in this matter.

Non ECLs could reach that if 30 weren't the limit, sure. For non-ECLs, 30 is the limit so why isn't ECL +1 limited to 29?

Why should it be? What is the reasoning for it? What perceived imbalance are you seeing? How does it improve RP? Game experience?

How does it not?


Edit:
ECL means effective character level. So a ECL +1 PC at 29 is effectively 30. Where is the balance in allowing someone to effectively gain level 32 when most other classes are limited to 30?

The question of RP is moot because it doesn't apply. RP begins at level 1 on this server.

Dagesh wrote:How does it not?

I like it the way it is. I like that any build no matter what the ECL can realize the full 30 level potential of feats and builds. It adds more possible builds in terms of mechanics for replaying the game over with different builds.

To further chap you backside. No one is preventing you from imposing this ECL burden upon yourself to enhance your own RP experience as you see fit.

My backside is far from chapped.

If the best argument is subjective or anecdotal, it seems the chafing rests in other hides.

ECL +# realizes a builds potential at the hit dice + ECL. To say that it further adds potential simply argues that it allows something beyond level 30. It's effectively arguing that there's more build potential past level 30.

Well, yeah. If I could build to level 40, I'd have lots of build potential and RP possibilities.

Server status quo. We have had this level cap since 2008, content has been designed with that in mind, ECL race or not. This change one way or another would introduce new things to consider. For example, either existing characters lose levels they might have had for years, or then we are looking at extra attacks per round, high spell DCs, more epic feats for some builts, etc. Hence some could say that there is a need to adjust the content on the server further to give more challenge and so on.

Thus the ball goes back to you, what good would such a change bring to the current status quo?

I personally think it's fine the way it is, speaking as someone who has never wanted to play an ECL character ever. Yes, ECL characters might be effectively 1-3 character levels higher than non-ECL characters ... but they also have to earn a ton more experience to get there.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but would capping an ECL mage character to level 29, 28, 27 etc. also make them far more vulnerable to dispels?

The question is one of mechanics, mostly.

Although I understand the plea for history and status quo. What would/could happen? I could ask my magic eight ball but the answers are vague.

What is there to fear? A loss of a level? How many builds hinge on that last level or two? What is lost in a level or so is made up in the benefits gained from ECL? That's the very reason ECL exists.

wangxiuming wrote:I personally think it's fine the way it is, speaking as someone who has never wanted to play an ECL character ever. Yes, ECL characters might be effectively 1-3 character levels higher than non-ECL characters ... but they also have to earn a ton more experience to get there.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but would capping an ECL mage character to level 29, 28, 27 etc. also make them far more vulnerable to dispels?

A "ton" more experience is relative. It boils down to how much time you have to gather up XP.

The dispel question is a good one. Seeing as how drow gain SR for simply existing is interesting. Aasimar (what should be rare) who are already under 30 caster level might have a worry but not otherwise.

Everything is fine as it is. Having some races that are ECL++ is good. It only means that there are races superior to humans,dwarves and so on. Also getting ECL++ character to their full potential doesn't come cheap anyway so everything in this matter is perfectly balanced the way I see it.

Dagesh wrote:Aasimar (what should be rare) who are already under 30 caster level might have a worry but not otherwise.

This server really isn't that hardcore from what I've gathered. It isn't going to enforce Aasimars being a rare sight, or any race for that matter. The closest thing to this I can think of is how classes like Red Wizard and Shadow Adept require a DM application. To be honest though, it doesn't bug me like it would have years ago. The population is rare for FR RP server, and I'm willing to set aside some of my preferences to enjoy the vast array of players to RP with. Even if some of them are way better than me at this game. (Darn you!)

Calodan wrote:It adds more possible builds in terms of mechanics for replaying the game over with different builds.

I do however think that this argument is a little silly, Cal. I think most builds that are optimized are designed with ECL races in mind. What's the absolute best race for min/maxing a druid? Aasimar. What about a Paladin? Aasimar. Cleric? Aasimar. Favored Soul? Aasimar. Bard? Aasimar. Sorcerer? Aasimar. See what I mean?

Dagesh wrote:The question is one of mechanics, mostly.

Although I understand the plea for history and status quo. What would/could happen? I could ask my magic eight ball but the answers are vague.

What is there to fear? A loss of a level? How many builds hinge on that last level or two? What is lost in a level or so is made up in the benefits gained from ECL? That's the very reason ECL exists.

On Jys ECL+2 would put her at level 28, thus disabling her still spell 6-9, effectively ruining her whole build and ability to use higher level spells while wearing her armor. Thus having been level 30 for a whlie, I would be pretty unhappy if I were to all of a sudden not be able to use my spells because of something that hasn't been an issue for 9 years.

Clearly we need level 32 humans