Ranger Beastmaster Style

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

I was thinking about new Ranger styles. Mostly people want 2h style, but that was deemed too powerful. How about Beastmaster Ranger ?

Ranger gets 4 feats depending on his combat style :

2nd level : Natural Bond
6th level : Extended Spell
11th level : Dire animal
21th level : Epic Animal Companion

Now, the three feats we already have, with Natural Bond and Epic Animal Companion a no-brainers. Maybe something else could be implemented instead of Extended Spell, feel free to give suggestions. The kick is Dire Animal - it would change normal companion skin where it can - Bear, Boar, Wolf, Badger into Dire versions with couple of extra HD or blanket ability bonuses, whatever feels right.

It would add some flavour I think, while being largely balanced and easy to implement (bar Dire feat, I dont know how hard would that be).

What do you think?

[Sun Wukong]

Why not:

2nd: Natural Bond
6th: Epic Animal Companion
11th: Extra Animal Companion (Summons two)
21th: Extra Animal Companion (Summons three)



Go my pretties, tear those sword archons for me. You would need to go for wisdom build to have them all buffed up, and still be little short for your own buffs.

[aaron22]

Why not:

2nd: Natural Bond
6th: Epic Animal Companion
11th: Extra Animal Companion (Summons two)
21th: Extra Animal Companion (Summons three)



Go my pretties, tear those sword archons for me. You would need to go for wisdom build to have them all buffed up, and still be little short for your own buffs.

here is how i would do it.

2nd: Shirtless Steel (wearing no armor you are treated as having full plate)
6th: Summon familiar (it has to be an eagle and you can see what it sees)
11th: Extra Animal Companion (it has to be a pair of ferrets and they are considered rogues of equal level as the caster with comparable skills of rogue of that level)
21st: Extra Animal Companion (has to be a black tiger and is... a huge black tiger)



LOVE THIS FLICK!!!

[Sun Wukong]

But were I to offer a slightly more serious suggestion, the ranger spell list has access to Summon Creature I-IV, and the spell Conjure Animals.

And here is the wiki page about summoning in general.

Thus currently it is possible for a Ranger to cast Summon Creature IV, and Conjure Animals for a maximum of 5 creatures if we also consider their animal companion.

Therefore, how about following Beast Master Progression:

2nd level: +2 HD to your Summon Creature and Conjure Animal spells
6th level: +2 HD to your Summon Creature and Conjure Animal spells
11th level: +2 HD to your Summon Creature and Conjure Animal spells
21th level: +2 HD to your Summon Creature and Conjure Animal spells

That would be +8 to the HD.

Now, if our character also goes to pick up the feats: Spell Focus Conjuration +1, Greater Spell Focus Conjuration for +1, and Epic Spell Focus Conjuration for +2, a 'Beastmaster' ranger would have a total of +12 HD to their Summons.

Hence the Summon Creature IV would summon a 20 HD animal, and Conjure Animals would conjure 22 HD animals.

Now important thing to consider is that Rangers have limited spell slot options even as a wisdom based Ranger. They can buff up their animal companion and themselves, and not really have much spells left to buff up these summons. Therefore, it might be alright to allow them to have such high HD creatures. But QC can look at the numbers, try things out... and see if the 'Beast Master' progression needs to be tweaked.

Rangers would be losing a lot from not having their weapon styles available.

So, do you have any thoughts about this?

[Sun Wukong]

The ranger class already has access to spells that summon animals, however, the slow spell progression and the limited number of spells slots means that there is not really a reason to use any of these spells.

For example, you can get Summon Creature IV at level 14 while a Sorcerer/Wizard/Cleric/Druid/Spirit Shaman/Favored Soul has already gained access to Summon Creature VII and a plethora of buffs that could be applied to make it stronger. Therefore the ranger's summons do not exactly serve a purpose beyond being a temporary meat shield, a distraction for the enemy.

Now, rangers do get shield proficiency by default and therefore a Beastmaster could go sword and board without any trouble, and with increased summon HD I believe that a beastmaster could actually make use of them. It would offer a very distinct alternative to archery, hunter kit, and two-weapon fighting based rangers.

That's about all.


edit: Well, there are many reasons to have lots of beasts around you. From being a malarite to orcish ranger.

[metaquad4]

2nd Level: 1/Day Summon Second Animal Companion (Summons an extra animal companion for 24 hours or until your character rests, using the summon slot).
6th Level: Exalted Natural Attack
11th Level: Exalted Companion
21st Level: Epic Animal Companion, Natural Bond

Exalted Natural Attack
Type of Feat: General
You can focus holy or unholy power into your natural attacks.
Prerequisites: BAB +5
Benefit: Each time you deal damage with a natural attack, you deal 1 extra point of divine damage, or 1d4 points of magic damage to outsiders and undead.

If you have the "ranger beastmaster style", your animal companion(s) get +1 AB/5 Ranger Levels and also benefits from the ranger's favored enemies.

Exalted Companion
Type of Feat: Wild
Instead of an animal companion, you have a celestial animal of good alignment or a fiendish animal of evil alignment.
Prerequisites: Animal Companion.
Benefit: Your animal companion gains the Celestial template if you are good or neutral and the Fiendish template if you are evil.
Both Fiendish and Celestial Animals gain:
Spell Resistance equal to their hit dice + 5
Damage Reduction 10/Magic if level 12 or higher, 5/Magic otherwise.
Darkvision and Blindfight
Fiendish creatures gain Damage Resistance (Cold and Fire) 10 if level 8 or higher, 5 otherwise.
Celestial creatures gain Damage Resistance (Cold, Electricity, and Acid) 10 if level 8 or higher, 5 otherwise.

If you have the "ranger beastmaster style", the animal's spell resistance becomes the higher of animal HD + 5 OR the ranger's ranger levels + 10. Additionally, the animal's damage reduction becomes adamantine.

[Sun Wukong]

Is that official QC idea or just your own?

[Egg Shen]

Why not:

2nd: Natural Bond
6th: Epic Animal Companion
11th: Extra Animal Companion (Summons two)
21th: Extra Animal Companion (Summons three)



Go my pretties, tear those sword archons for me. You would need to go for wisdom build to have them all buffed up, and still be little short for your own buffs.

here is how i would do it.

2nd: Shirtless Steel (wearing no armor you are treated as having full plate)
6th: Summon familiar (it has to be an eagle and you can see what it sees)
11th: Extra Animal Companion (it has to be a pair of ferrets and they are considered rogues of equal level as the caster with comparable skills of rogue of that level)
21st: Extra Animal Companion (has to be a black tiger and is... a huge black tiger)



LOVE THIS FLICK!!!

It has been decided, this is the best post on the forums.

[mrm3ntalist]

How are you going to buff the animal companion?

[Sun Wukong]

2nd Level: 1/Day Summon Second Animal Companion (Summons an extra animal companion for 24 hours or until your character rests, using the summon slot).

Would beastmaster have animal companion progression starting from level 2 onwards?, or would he be stuck with the level 1 animal companion until he gets animal companion feat proper at ranger level 4 and finally starts gaining animal companion progression from that point onwards.

I would lean towards giving them Natural Bond at level 2 along with the 'Summon Second Animal Companion' ability.

Is this companion be different from the primary animal companion?

Anyhow, the loss of Summon Creature I-IV feels alright to me.

Exalted Natural Attack
Type of Feat: General
You can focus holy or unholy power into your natural attacks.
Prerequisites: BAB +5
Benefit: Each time you deal damage with a natural attack, you deal 1 extra point of divine damage, or 1d4 points of magic damage to outsiders and undead.

If you have the "ranger beastmaster style", your animal companion(s) get +1 AB/5 Ranger Levels and also benefits from the ranger's favored enemies.

Would this give extra unarmed damage for the ranger himself? Would the animal companions get +1 divine damage and 1d4 magic against outsiders and undead?

The potential of +6 AB is a big thing for ranger, not to mention the +7 damage per from favored enemies hit.

Exalted Companion
Type of Feat: Wild
Instead of an animal companion, you have a celestial animal of good alignment or a fiendish animal of evil alignment.
Prerequisites: Animal Companion.
Benefit: Your animal companion gains the Celestial template if you are good or neutral and the Fiendish template if you are evil.
Both Fiendish and Celestial Animals gain:
Spell Resistance equal to their hit dice + 5
Damage Reduction 10/Magic if level 12 or higher, 5/Magic otherwise.
Darkvision and Blindfight
Fiendish creatures gain Damage Resistance (Cold and Fire) 10 if level 8 or higher, 5 otherwise.
Celestial creatures gain Damage Resistance (Cold, Electricity, and Acid) 10 if level 8 or higher, 5 otherwise.

If you have the "ranger beastmaster style", the animal's spell resistance becomes the higher of animal HD + 5 OR the ranger's ranger levels + 10. Additionally, the animal's damage reduction becomes adamantine.

The celestial/fiendish template sounds like it might make it so that some of the animal companion buffs might stop working. Does this work for one of the animal companions, or both?

If I think about two fully buffed up animal companions that have that 40 Spell Resistance and and 10/Adamantium feels a little bit mean to be honest.

For example, Epic Wolf has base:
276 HP, 42 AC, attacks done at: +24/+22/+20/+18, and 1d6+7 damage.

Nature's Favor gives +5 AB and damage.
Animal Growth gives +3 AB and +4 damage.
Greater Magic Fang gives +5 AB and damage.
/// There are some AC buffs..

Thus currently the Epic Wolf would have:
Attacks done at +37/+35/+33/+31, and 1d6 + 21 damage.

With Beast Master, you would be adding +6 AB and +7 damage. I dread to think about if Bane of Enemies would also stack on top for another +2 AB and +2d6 damage.

Would the Epic Wolf have the following stats against favored enemies:
Attacks done at +45/+43/+41/+39, and 3d6 + 28 damage. (38.5~ on avarage hit), and you would get two of these, and the epic wolf is not the strongest animal companion.

[PaulImposteur]

This style idea certainly makes me want to make a full ranger, it sounds awesome.
Shame no 2-hander style to ever come out though, it seems like something that would be fun.

[chad878262]

Beastmaster Style Ranger:

Level 2: Natural Bond (doesn't help them until level 4 though)
Level 6: Protective Ward (for animal companion - i.e. +1/+2 AC for your companion based on your ranger levels)
Level 11: Extend Spell
Level 21: Epic Animal Companion


Two-Handed Style Ranger:

Level 2: Power Attack
Level 6: Improved Favored Enemy (x2)
Level 11: Improved Power Attack
Level 21: Favored Power Attack (x2)

Just my opinion of how these styles could be implemented in a balanced fashion...others may disagree.

[Sun Wukong]

Beastmaster Style Ranger:

Level 2: Natural Bond (doesn't help them until level 4 though)
Level 6: Protective Ward (for animal companion - i.e. +1/+2 AC for your companion based on your ranger levels)
Level 11: Extend Spell
Level 21: Epic Animal Companion

Rangers can usually spend two feats on Natural Bond and Epic Animal Companion. (No requirements on either) They do not really have that many spells that need to be extended, Enrage Animal is one that could use it, but you can just fill your level one slots with it. As for protective ward for animal companion, you can live without that +2 AC quite easily. Thus I do not really see a reason to go for this one.

Two-Handed Style Ranger:

Level 2: Power Attack
Level 6: Improved Favored Enemy (x2)
Level 11: Improved Power Attack
Level 21: Favored Power Attack (x2)

Add in 5 levels of Frenzied Berserker, and you got a monstrous build. How much did that Favored Power Attack build of mine do damage per hit? 60-70 - and this one could get +2 strength and Expose Weakness? Yeah, I can imagine how easy it would be to say no to it.

[PaulImposteur]

Add in 5 levels of Frenzied Berserker, and you got a monstrous build. How much did that Favored Power Attack build of mine do damage per hit? 60-70 - and this one could get +2 strength and Expose Weakness? Yeah, I can imagine how easy it would be to say no to it.

Are there not much stronger builds on the server? I feel like that sort of damage range is easily attainable. My Level 15 Cavalier Paladin was practically doing that same damage against Xvarts yesterday. Without FB mind you, just IPA and a lot of kick-butt spells.

[chad878262]

Rangers can usually spend two feats on Natural Bond and Epic Animal Companion. (No requirements on either) They do not really have that many spells that need to be extended, Enrage Animal is one that could use it, but you can just fill your level one slots with it. As for protective ward for animal companion, you can live without that +2 AC quite easily. Thus I do not really see a reason to go for this one.

Rangers can also spend the feats to get Rapid Shot, Manyshot and Improved Rapid Shot (as well as One Shot). Not sure what the point is and I don't see powering up their pets much more than this as they are already right next to Druids for summons. Extend spell is more about managing the spell book since Rangers get so few slots. Extend is an important spell for any Ranger IMO.

Add in 5 levels of Frenzied Berserker, and you got a monstrous build. How much did that Favored Power Attack build of mine do damage per hit? 60-70 - and this one could get +2 strength and Expose Weakness? Yeah, I can imagine how easy it would be to say no to it.

Against 2 enemy types... There are also builds that can do ~200 per hit in certain circumstances or for limited amount of time. I don't see an issue with it, but your response actually outlines why it is difficult to implement new ranger styles that everyone can agree on.