We have only 5 area's of CR25+ on the server. The Greypeaks have an Ankheg transition door that can't be clicked, a stone giant mine that when you enter has a named stone giant you can't interact with and a door that leads nowhere. There are many other unused transitions on the server as well. It would be AWESOME if our amazing area building team could come up with a half dozen new area's meant for high epic PC's. There are less than 1/2 the end game area's of any other CR range. Bonus points if new area's are difficult enough to require or at least make it a good idea to party up with 3-5 others. Difficult locks and traps, tough enemies where a true 'tank' can shine, enemies more susceptible to magic than melee, etc. Area's to really make players think about what compliments their characters tactics and go out looking for the right kind of PC's to team up with.
Maecius wrote:Valefort compiled the following list of area maps by CR for QC, and we decided we'd post it for general public use and awareness as well.
It is an incomplete list at present. Right now it only contains surface areas, though we may update it for Underdark areas at some point if possible.
Note that the CRs are based on the idea that you'll be taking the map on with a party. If you're going in solo, it's been suggested you add 2-3 levels to the area's challenge rating.
Valefort wrote:[The] stated CR [of some areas] is quite wildly different from the real difficulty. [Here] is a list of the CR on a bunch of surface areas, sorted by CR (I don't know anything about Underdark so I skipped it).
Maybe the easiest solution is to take 4–5 from the CR 20–24 Areas, and make those higher in CR. That way it would spread out the love, and only be labor to adjust the spawns, instead of the labor to build a whole Area. Just a thought, but I like what your asking for, Chad.
Steve wrote:Maybe the easiest solution is to take 4–5 from the CR 20–24 Areas, and make those higher in CR. That way it would spread out the love, and only be labor to adjust the spawns, instead of the labor to build a whole Area. Just a thought, but I like what your asking for, Chad.
I am all for that. There are some areas that would suffice quite nicely I think that could be upped a bit. Troll Claws comes to mind since the area is the bridge between the Upperdark and the Surface.
I have always felt that one needed a drastic boost in CR.
Nashkel Mines could be the other. Very long crawl mostly already only done by higher level PCs.
Perhaps re-do the crystal cave nearby? Or maybe not. Since the new stuff I have not visited that area in some time. There are plenty of chests in there so maybe reduce traps and increase some spawns. This cave is rarely done at all. So I think it needs a facelift and perhaps a incentive. I.E. higher XP gains for CR25+
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"
"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
I love the crystal the crystal cave and it's wonderful traps! It's one of the few dungeons that stealth and search are a very big deal in.
I'd be fine with moving some 21-25 areas to 25-30, but them it might feel like you need more of those so you start moving lower CR up and then its more work. Plus new areas are fun...
Really I just want more high end areas that are difficult or maybe even near impossible to solo. Because if you can solo an area, going there with a party makes it too easy.
chad878262 wrote:I love the crystal the crystal cave and it's wonderful traps! It's one of the few dungeons that stealth and search are a very big deal in.
I'd be fine with moving some 21-25 areas to 25-30, but them it might feel like you need more of those so you start moving lower CR up and then its more work. Plus new areas are fun...
Really I just want more high end areas that are difficult or maybe even near impossible to solo. Because if you can solo an area, going there with a party makes it too easy.
What about the spirit troll cave? Easily not a CR21 area. Got mopped there at CR27......Could use a more crawl like experience perhaps another level and more spawns?
So maybe we need a face lift for a few more areas not used enough and CR upped to bring the XP to appropriate level for those that go solo or in groups.
Then ask for 2-3 more CR 25+ Dungeons based on groups of CR25-30 with the last level being 30+ CR on them? Put one each in Upperdark, Surface and Underdark. Since the Upperdark is considered an extension of the Underdark this gives the Underdark more CR25+ areas and possible epic bosses for them to fight as requested in another thread? While also putting in some things globally for the server?
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"
"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
Calodan wrote:
I am all for that. There are some areas that would suffice quite nicely I think that could be upped a bit. Troll Claws comes to mind since the area is the bridge between the Upperdark and the Surface.
Don't touch troll claw fjord, it is currently one of the few areas where you can survive with AC.
Nothing wrong with adding new areas, though.
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
Steve wrote:Maybe the easiest solution is to take 4–5 from the CR 20–24 Areas, and make those higher in CR. That way it would spread out the love, and only be labor to adjust the spawns, instead of the labor to build a whole Area. Just a thought, but I like what your asking for, Chad.
Please heavens no.
The current cr 20-24 areas easily feel high-epic, and I find there to be an awful small/non-existent amount of areas one can go to before level 25 without spending all their gold for an ale stein.
For life to be worth living, afterlife must retain individuality, personal identity and memories without fail - https://www.sageadvice.eu/do-elves-reta ... afterlife/
A character belongs only to their player, and only them. And only the player may decide what happens.
Lock, I specified the no outdoor thing and said maybe some dungeons or caves.
Hoihe, area CR is specifically catered to a party. Some players and certain builds have an easier time soloing than others, but with a group I've found the CRs listed to be about right. If anything with a group of four most of them are a bit too easy.
how about some CR 31+ areas? take it UP another level. a challenge for well organized and balanced groups of 5 or 6. possibly more. groups of 10? a challenge for groups of 10+ is more about pure numbers of mobs not really the strength of a few (although they would be super tough). better organized mobs. mob groups are scariest when they are balanced. a few fighter types a couple heal types a couple mage types and a couple ranged/scout types. just a couple areas really would be cool. they wont be used as much, but really we should be PROMOTING group play as much as we can. good place for guilds to hit when they are up in level.
Imo this is a trap and leads to more powerbuilding, making monsters tougher is easy however the primary answer for players is powerbuilding and not teaming, our monsters are overall already a bit too tough.
If the intention is to make people group in order to succeed (and, from a designing pov, in order for people to interact rather than solo grind) another solution is to add non-combat features or hard counters creatures.
We have examples of this with the stone giant area, dragonspear to an extent (unless you have dimension door wand ...), more "gates" can be added where cooperation and a given number of "skill" sets are needed to go forward/explore content entirely and personally I hope we'll get more of this (but not too much either because often enough soloing is not a choice) rather than simply making tougher creatures.
Valefort wrote:Imo this is a trap and leads to more powerbuilding, making monsters tougher is easy however the primary answer for players is powerbuilding and not teaming, our monsters are overall already a bit too tough.
If the intention is to make people group in order to succeed (and, from a designing pov, in order for people to interact rather than solo grind) another solution is to add non-combat features or hard counters creatures.
We have examples of this with the stone giant area, dragonspear to an extent (unless you have dimension door wand ...), more "gates" can be added where cooperation and a given number of "skill" sets are needed to go forward/explore content entirely and personally I hope we'll get more of this (but not too much either because often enough soloing is not a choice) rather than simply making tougher creatures.
This I agree with!
I still think there is a lack of balance though for CR25+ areas.
I also understand the server is designed for CR1-20 mostly and CRs above that are not considered the norm. However with the age of this game I think more CR25+ is happening more often now and is needed.
Not sure how it can be addressed. Just saying what I feel. Take it for what you think it should be or not! Still having fun otherwise right now!
Kory Sentinel
"We should take the army head on!"
"... it sounds like a terrible idea, but look at that smile."
"And he just sounds so confident ... he is a favored soul."
"Even if we don't survive, he will, and isn't that what matters?" -Red Lancer
you see vale, all the content can be done with a great build and gear along with solid play. that means that if you have those things then the world is yours. solo the whole thing and dont need anyone else. this is a mindset that the server promotes by limiting the world in this manner. it may be too late to change that now. perhaps not, but if you know the END GAME can only be accomplished with a good balanced group then that becomes the standard as opposed to the exception.
you see it in other games that promote group/raid play. its all about grouping even though you could solo the tiers lower than a group would challenge you with. you seek the bigger rewards from the group play. bigger xp payouts. but for here it would be dnd. adventures doing adventure together. we dont have much of that, becuase the server doesnt promote it. it enables the solo play.
More areas for level 20-30 would be great. Building it so that UD players can also access them from underneath would be even better. I don't think they should be any harder than current high level areas though, for it seems to me that the hardest areas we have (speartop, avernus, nethereze) aren't used so often. The reward just doesn't match the challenge. Unless we want to increase the reward, we shouldn't increase the difficulty. And increasing the reward for top bosses encourages powergaming.
To encourage party play it would be better to reward each player with the gold bag from killing a boss, rather than having to divide it up for bringing friends. Could perhaps lower it slightly to compensate. It's the same logic as any other loot really.
