Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

What nonsense is this?!?

But with the change to Evasion requiring Light Armor to utilize, is it beyond imagining that Evasion could be untied to certain Classes/PrCs, and become a General Feat to choose?

Maybe it needs some form of prerequisite, though in many Classes or PrCs that grant it, there are no similar reqs. there, so I'm wondering what would be fair.

Anyway, my interest in suggesting this is how ridiculous it seems that a Swashbuckler once could not acquire Evasion, though the Class was 30 levels. This is now fixed by a Custom BGTSCC change, but why not address this when it comes to other Class combinations?

Right, that's it! Where's my pitchfork?!?!

Not gonna lie - I hate the idea. Takes power away from melee/sneak and gives classes like cleric, druid, bard and favoured soul (who are not feat-starved) an easy option to get evasion/EW without having to lose caster levels. They can then use those spare levels more effectively. No thanks mate.

AC81 wrote:

Right, that's it! Where's my pitchfork?!?!

Not gonna lie - I hate the idea. Takes power away from melee/sneak and gives classes like cleric, druid, bard and favoured soul (who are not feat-starved) an easy option to get evasion/EW without having to lose caster levels. They can then use those spare levels more effectively. No thanks mate.

Could restrict it as a feat for those classes, but honestly this sounds complicated and out of my scope.

Babuguuscooties wrote:

AC81 wrote:

Right, that's it! Where's my pitchfork?!?!

Not gonna lie - I hate the idea. Takes power away from melee/sneak and gives classes like cleric, druid, bard and favoured soul (who are not feat-starved) an easy option to get evasion/EW without having to lose caster levels. They can then use those spare levels more effectively. No thanks mate.

Could restrict it as a feat for those classes, but honestly this sounds complicated and out of my scope.

Still means that if you aren't one of those classes you burn a feat to get it. So you're still at a loss. Melee's have been weaken enough in recent times - we gonna stick the boot in again?

Well, Evasion itself doesn't seem to be the real issue, AC81, my friend. The real issue seems to be that it unlocks Expose Weakness. Am I correct?

Perhaps then NOT the Evasion as we know it, but Faux Evasion, which is just itself, without unlocking Expose Weakness?

The real problem, being Expose Weakness, is that Expose Weakness has never been "taken care of." It is a NWN2 created Feat, and not existing in D&D proper. For good reasons!

It still boggles my mind why the simplest "fix" for EW hasn't been applied on BGTSCC, which is: increase the Cooldown. It has a faster cooldown than Knockdown!!! And it's effects stack!! Simply doubling or tripling the Cooldown would STILL keep it a valid feat to have—especially for High DEX builds—but reduce it's ridiculousness, imho.

I think it would actually open up a few paths for melee Builds, which do not have to Dip into Rogue. You could have a DEX high weapon finesse fighter/assassin that isn't a Rogue, for example.

Anyway, if the concern here is that it makes getting Expose Weakness too easy for casters or whatever Builds that must suffer to get it, I can understand that, because EW is ridiculous.

But I'm talking about the gains that are granted from Evasion, specifically.

BTW, a Cleric with the Water domain gets the option for Evasion already.

id probably say no or something crazy like a 25 dex requirement

Blackman D wrote:id probably say no or something crazy like a 25 dex requirement

Shadowdancer is DEX 19 + 2 feats (and 3 non-CL levels, easily mitigated by 1 Feat...so let's say 3 feats).

Would you consider 19 + 3x DEX (feats m/l) to make a case for 22 DEX req.?

If a caster wants evasion they should have to lose those caster levels. The real issue is not expose weakness, or I suppose better to say not only expose weakness. For casters evasion is ridiculously good since they can pump their saves really high. DC casters or blasters don't care about expose weakness, they care about avoiding damage from traps and some bosses. Evasion does that for them.

Not to say such a thing would never happen, but I'd be against it, personally.

chad878262 wrote: Evasion does that for them.

Bu that's my whole point! lol.

With Practiced Caster + Archmage/Hierophant levels, any dip is easily mitigated. I'd say it is actually better to dip, considering the now existing options of PC + AM/H.

Because with the CL bug fixed, CL 30 is maxed, with certain PrCs granting higher CLs.

If you want to show me a build—in the builder with real numbers—where a caster would somehow benefit too easily from Evasion being a Selectable Feat, them please, I'm willing to see it and STFU about it.

It's simple really. A Feat doesn't eat up one of four classes and doesn't eat levels. Thus you could go Favored Soul/Blackguard and take Evasion as a Feat. My Bard24/R3/F3 could become B26/F4 (CL30 instead of 28), any BladeSinger build would benefit from taking such a feat without worrying over losing additional caster levels. Prior to the dispel fix there were many builds that went below CL30 in order to get things like Evasion alongside EDM for example. Now having both in general drops you below CL30 or requires a very specific build/deity. I see no reason to open evasion back up as alongside HiPS and Epic Dodge it is one of the top defensive feats you can have.

While requiring a DEX of 22 (or whatever) would limit the issue, A Drow DeathSinger would gladly lose a bit of INT to retain Caster levels while gaining evasion. Though more difficult a Sun or Moon Elf Bladesinger would also likely be more than happy to gain evasion at a cost of somewhat lower INT score.

chambordini wrote:Especially not with an auto-hit expose weakness.

This was the first thing that came to mind.

chad878262 wrote:My Bard24/R3/F3 ...

Why would you build with 3 levels of Fighter? That's just weird, man. You SHOULD remake that.

@Chambo: Again, you bring up the larger, unaddressed issue, of Expose Weakness. Even though the AutoHit cannot seem to be gracefully fixed, a longer Cooldown fixes so much about this OP Epic Feat.

But yeah, if the real problem is opening the path to EW, with EW so messed up, then I see how even entertaining the idea is impossible for many.

Steve wrote:Why would you build with 3 levels of Fighter? That's just weird, man. You SHOULD remake that.

3 levels of Fighter for 2 bonus feats as well as tower shields.
3 levels of Rogue for evasion/expose weakness as well as disable device.
24 levels of Bard + Practiced Caster for CL28.

Fighter 4 brings me down an extra Caster Level, not saying that choice would be 'wrong', but I got what I needed with 3 levels of Fighter and want the extra caster level. I don't need to rebuild anything.

Bard 26 / Rogue 4 gets you a Bonus Feat from Bard, CL 30, plus Uncanny Dodge.

So you want Tower Shield to lower your builds AB by 2? A bard has Mirrors and Displacement...AC is somewhat redundant.

Anyway, if you're happy, I'm cool with that.

So, though Evasion was changed to only work in Light Armors, the thought is that Players are still dipping in order to get Expose Weakness?

Damn that EW and the lack of will to fix it!!!!

Evasion as a feat would be nice but i don't see it happening... not without some kind of trade-off anyway.