TWF swashbuckler/duelist(?)/weaponmaster(?)

[WatWatsen]

So I'm realizing with my builds that not having evasion, sucks. :V

Thinking about making a swashbuckler who dual-wields rapiers (grab one with +shield AC from Roaringshore for the offhand). Duelist seems like an obvious choice to throw in, so then dex is giving me AB+AC and int is giving me damage+AC, right? So what else would synergize with that... I thought going for weaponmaster would be good for the extra crit range, though it has a lot of prereqs, then I see that dervish and tempest both share a lot of the prereq feats, and give some of them (dervish would give spring attack, tempest would give GTWF and whirlwind) so there might be something there, though weaponmaster prereqs + the two weapon fighting line of feats would be a lot to fit into the pre-epics without any fighter levels. And I need at least 16 swashbuckler to get evasion... 16 sb/7 duel/7 wm seems like it'd be a super late blooming build.

Any suggestions for class splits/stat splits/feats along these lines? Pretty sure I'd want human for this one. Get dex up to a natural 19, then rest into int?

Thanks!

[Valefort]

WM needs many feats, generally speaking it's only good when you already have a decent base damage. Only INT matters for damage on a TWF swashbuckler, with 25 damage as a minimum it means having 28-30 INT which doesn't leave much room.

WM needs 6 feats, you get only 1 for free (mobility), 5 and you want the TWF feats up to GTWF : 3 feats, then in epic levels your hands are also tied

In fact : http://nwn2db.com/build/?278620

The AB is low for a melee character, it playable but there will be many missed attacks.

As much as I like Swashbuckler you can also consider this kind of split instead : http://nwn2db.com/build/?165320

It's much easier to play but lacks some flair.

[Winterborne]

One thing to keep in mind is that if you go duelist, you lose the AC and Precise strike if you dual wield.

[aaron22]

One thing to keep in mind is that if you go duelist, you lose the AC and Precise strike if you dual wield.

just the precise strike. AC= int and AC=parry is unaffected

[WatWatsen]

Okay, let's give up on the weaponmaster idea. The concept I'm now thinking of is a swashbuckling pirate who dual wields axes, let's say (maybe a battleaxe + a handaxe, or if that's dumb then two handaxes). Dread pirate seems a natural fit, but it doesn't seem that great and might be a little redundant with swashbuckler. Dervish seems like it'd fit with the slashing weapons thing, and then I was thinking maybe a splash of rogue just to get evasion early... which led me to consider making a dex build and going for levels of shadowdancer and/or assassin to get sneak dice for damage (I've never played a sneaker type before)? Am I going down a foolish path, here? :V

[Valefort]

Swashbuckler 7 dread pirate 10 dervish 10 bard or rogue 3 with handaxes is totally fine.

[WatWatsen]

Swashbuckler 7 dread pirate 10 dervish 10 bard or rogue 3 with handaxes is totally fine.

This is sounding real close to what I wanna do, except I'm thinking it'd be fun to make the race gray orc and would get an xp penalty, and that'd be the only way to get evasion into the build without hitting swash 16... maybe something like swash 7/dp 10/dervish 10/shadowdancer 3? But I'm not sure how to put all that together or what kinda stat split and feats to go for...

Either that or just say screw it and build a str ranger 30 and just RP being a pirate :V Monstrous companion would make a good first mate, right?

[chad878262]

How does Dervish help you if you want to use Rapiers? Dervish only works with slashing weapons, but if you're ok with switching to Scimitars it works!

If going Grey Orc I would dump the DEX/INT idea for STR based with Mithral Chainmail as your armor of choice.

R11/B9/DP10 will give you greater TWF with Evasion and Dread Pirate. Your spells are all dispellable, but are still nice for utility and can give you a decent boost in areas without dispel mobs. Would have to wait until 30 to get GTWF if you want to avoid XP penalty.

Could also go F8/B7/DP10/T5 to avoid XP penalty and go the STR GTWF route, but doesn't get evasion. Switching Bard out for Rogue gets evasion while avoiding XP penalty.

Finally, you could use water cleric for Evasion, which might make sense for a Grey Orc Umberlean Pirate and works out since Cleric is Grey Orcs favored class!

F12/C3/DP10/T5 or
SB14/C3/DP10/T3
SB12/C3/DP10/OWD5 (note that OWD and DP 'songs' won't stack, but DP is only 10 minutes per rest while OWD is persistent. Also note this build needs 19 DEX in order to take GTWF.)

[WatWatsen]

I ended up settling for fighter 12/dervish10/tempest5/whirling dervish 3... does get evasion, expose weaknesses, GTWF, final str will only be 23 (26 w/ +3) but in the epics it does get the full line of epic weapon focus/weapon spec/melee mastery to make up for it, so I imagine it'll be stronger than a similar ranger build... my only regrets are that I couldn't cram in two-weapon defense (but tempest 5/dervish 10 should help), my hide/move silently skills will be crap and no HIPS, and I don't get the goofy monstrous humanoid to RP as my first mate... I think that last part is the one that bothers me the most :V

[electric mayhem]

Think Shield wands stack with TWDef?

Been researching similar builds as to yours.

Ranger based (Possible Dips: bard, pirate, fighter, Derv)
Pros: Favored enemies stacking dmg bonuses. Bane in Epics; (Sneak/Hunting suite) H/MS Camouflage/Swift Tracking; Full line of TWF feats free progression; Evasion/Expose Weakness; High Saves; PTWF;InsCourage
Cons: HIPS very late and only in outdoors. Big dmg bonus only available to favored list enemies.

Rogue based (Possible dips: assassin, fighter, pirate, bard, tempest, derv):
Pros: Lots of sneak/death attack; Evasion/Expose/Epic Precision; Skills powerhouse; Std Sneaking skill suite; UMD high; PTWF; High Reflex; Trap/Locks High; Appraise High; InsCourage
Cons: very low dmg outside of sneak; low HP and saves (except reflex); HIPS mid career lvl (if(SD=1,Early HIPS,Late HIPS from Ass or none at all)).

Fighter based (Dips any of:Rogue, SD, Tempest,bard):
Pros: Great dmg feat list from Specialised line; Able to fit CE/DeadDef/BlindFight/TWDef/ImpTWDef; HIPS from SD dip; Rog Dip; Expose/Evasion; PTWF (late depending upon Dex start and lvl ups); HIGH AB; High Fort/Reflex;InsCourage
Cons: No sneak attack means moderate damage to all at all times; Low skill count most points into Hide/MS (hips is primary defense) and had to burn points in Tumble as not class skill for fighter; Low UMD; side note- could ditch sneak and toe to toe fight, grab AB/AC class bonus instead of sd or rogue dips (get whirlderv for evasion lvl2).

[Egg Shen]

Yes, the two weapon defense line of feats stack with the AC bonus from a shield wand. The feats are essentially giving you the base shield AC, while the spell gives you a magical shield boost. Like the difference between full plate, and full plate +4, for instance.

And unless you're going heavy on sneak attack damage, it's gotta be all about swashbuckler for these builds. SB 5, + whatever + combat insight + a decent intel score (I do not subscribe to the belief that it has to be sky high to be worth it) and you've got a fun and effective melee build. Sure it has some weaknesses, but most builds do.