NPC DR/? (#Adamantine)

[DeepFriedMoose]

Hello!

I was hoping to open up a discussion into the DR traits of a few NPCs -- specifically, some UD NPC's.

I play a Monk, and I've noticed over the last few levels that Ki Strike (Adamantine) doesn't seem to really do.... well.... anything, actually. I'm aware that Adamantine weapons were discontinued from the server, and I support the reasoning behind it. At the same time, I wonder if Ki Strike has been bugged, or perhaps common enemies might simply have DR/-, rather than DR/?(adamantine/silver/bludgeoning, etc.).

I play exclusively in the Underdark, and so my point of reference comes from there. What I've noticed, since gaining Ki Strike (Adamantine), is that none of the enemies I face are at all effected by it -- the combat log still registers (X absorbs N Damage), no matter what I throw at it. I've tried facing them bare-fisted (no gloves), with and without buffs, but they always show some sort of reduced damage.

So I'm hoping others might have some insight for me, and if not, maybe the BGTSCC staff might be open to some suggestions.

Adamantine weapons are rare ("Legacy" seems a nice word), in that they are not commonly available through drops or merchants. Again, I fully support this decision, however at the same time, if the trait "Adamantine" is disabled on the server, it pretty much robs a dedicated Monk of a feat. If this is the case, may I suggest the following:
-- Change (or add to) the Ki Strike (Lawful) ability at lvl 10 to damage type: Cold Iron*
-- Change (or add to) the Ki Strike (Adamantine) ability at lvl 16 to damage type: Silver

If it's the case that these NPC's (Specifically, various Goblins, Myconoids, Elementals, and the RockBeasts) have DR -- it makes perfect sense -- they should, in most cases, have some kind of weakness. Elementals and Rockbeasts in particular should be effected by bludgeoning, and even more-so by Adamantine bludgeons (basically, a 16th level Monk should be able to wipe the floor with them). Myconoids might realistically have DR/Slashing, to reflect that they are vegetable in nature, and hacking parts of them off is the most effective way to deal with them. (Though, again, Adamantine seems like it might overcome this.)

In short, I'm looking for guidance. Maybe I don't understand the specific DR of these creatures -- maybe they have a weakness, and I've just been too unobservant to see it. (Believe me, it's well within the realm of possibility.) However, just tinkering around with various weapons, attacks, and materials, it seems that many of these creatures seem to have straight DR/-, and that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Each class is a specialist in it's own way -- a Fighter with a Maul is a Bludgeoning Specialist; a Cleric with their spells and melee is a Debuff Specialist; a Monk with sufficient level is a Damage Everything Specialist.

In short: "I have fists that are made of the hardest material in the known universe -- why are things still laughing at me?"

Thanks to all who read this far. I appreciate any and all feedback.

~ Moose


* (I have never, EVER seen any creature in the entirety of NWN or NWN2 that had DR/Lawful. Why does this even exist? Sure, theoretically it works against some Demons, according to the Sourcebooks, but even then, that DR needs to be coded into NWN, which seems to not be the case. I humbly BEG the staff to augment/replace this feature with a different damage type)

[Blackman D]

damage reductions work fine but yea there are mobs that simply have flat DR (/-)

UD also has mobs with addy weapons in some of the "better" spots, so yea it can suck but i doubt you are broken

[Nemni]

Adamantine is pretty much only for hitting through magical protections, like stoneskin. Monsters have DR that is countered by other materials, such as cold iron. Sadly there does not seem to be gloves with material properties for monks to use against them.

[Dragonslayer]

I hate to piggy back on this, but creatures have a flat DR? Does this include the undead near the Farmlands?

All I know is that my alchemical silver arrows might as well be toothpicks for all the damage they do.

[Calodan]

I hate to piggy back on this, but creatures have a flat DR? Does this include the undead near the Farmlands?

All I know is that my alchemical silver arrows might as well be toothpicks for all the damage they do.

Skeletons have DR/Blunt and Zombies are DR/Slashing I think. Other monsters may have DR/Piercing LIzard men I think have this. Liches DR/Blunt&Alchemical Silver. Devils DR/Silver&Good. Demons DR/Cold Iron&Good. Witches DR/Cold Iron. Vampires& Shape shifters DR/Silver.

I miss any?

[Blackman D]

mummies and the tree mobs have a flat 5/- i think, the lizardmen have a % immunity to slashing (about 25-30% i think)

[flyingchair]

Plenty of the devils also have Dr/- instead of dr/silver as they should. In the ud only the pit fiend, hellhounds, imps and the infernal avengers have dr/silver where as the abishai(they spawn more than the rest together) there and all the devils in avernus simply have flat dr/-

i know its a cr 30 area in avernus, but it just seems weird.

[Blackman D]

that reminded me of another one, few also have magical DR

the pit fiend and balor were suppose to have something like a /+3 sliver and /+3 cold iron, so depending on what you are using that may be the issue in those cases

the two ghosts in the netherese maze have scaling magical DR from +1 having a high DR to +4 completely bypassing it

[Glowfire]

Plenty of the devils also have Dr/- instead of dr/silver as they should. In the ud only the pit fiend, hellhounds, imps and the infernal avengers have dr/silver where as the abishai(they spawn more than the rest together) there and all the devils in avernus simply have flat dr/-

i know its a cr 30 area in avernus, but it just seems weird.

It should be fixed of that is the case... What is the point of a silver weapon otherwise?

[DeepFriedMoose]

Thanks to everyone that posted -- I really appreciate your thoughts and feedback.

More to this point:

damage reductions work fine but yea there are mobs that simply have flat DR (/-)

During some future updates, would it be possible to change some of these DR's to -/Adamantine in instances where this would make sense to do so? My specific example above cites Rock Beasts, which seems the most appropriate to start. But maybe Elementals, etc. as well? Punching something with a metal diamond should really make some kind of difference, outside of PvP (especially since Adamantine Weapons are ultra-rare Legacy items). Going against Stoneskin is great, and will be really handy if it ever comes up, but outside of PvP (which I rarely engage in), a major feat upgrade like Ki Strike is rendered fairly useless when it only applies to a handful of mobs in one specific area.

The DR for the Devils, etc. makes sense to me -- proper equipment is essential for fighting otherworldly entities. No qualms about that.

Rock Beasts certainly aren't the only ones with a flat DR/-, though, even if I can't recall which ones off the top of my head.

Thanks!

~ Moose

PS: I suppose the alternative would be to grant other damage types to Monks for Ki Strike -- like adding Silver or Cold Iron? What are people's thoughts on this idea?

[Thorsson]

I certainly think that it beggars belief that if the Monk's Ki Strike does not get trough certain types of DR and yet there are weapons that do, that there are not also Gloves that do.

I also think that, possibly bosses aside, all monsters should have the correct type of DR as per the Monster Manual.

I would say that these two things are far more important to realise than most of the stuff that gets called for in these forums.

[NegInfinity]

I also think that, possibly bosses aside, all monsters should have the correct type of DR as per the Monster Manual.

I second that...

[DeepFriedMoose]

I certainly think that it beggars belief that if the Monk's Ki Strike does not get trough certain types of DR and yet there are weapons that do, that there are not also Gloves that do.

I also think that, possibly bosses aside, all monsters should have the correct type of DR as per the Monster Manual.

I would say that these two things are far more important to realise than most of the stuff that gets called for in these forums.

This. Thank you, Thorsson!

I do have a pair of Adamantine gloves but, even before the Ki Strike upgrade, they didn't seem to do Adamantine damage. I'm not sure what's going on there. (Edit: Re-reading this, it occurs to me that you mean gloves with different damage types associated with them. I've been looking for a few months, and the only ones I can find have 1d4 Piercing [and that is the only Piercing damage applied], or any of the lesser Elemental Monk gloves, that give a flat +2 damage, and rarely have any bonus above 2 as well. No Cold Iron gloves, or Silver, Bonus Damage Type: slashing, piercing, etc. If anyone knows of others, I'd be very welcome to correction!)

As for the Ki Strike progression, it could use some work. By lvl 4 (Ki Strike: Magic), you probably have at least +1 gloves, so that one is more or less moot. At lvl 10, it adds "Lawful", but there are literally zero enemies coded into the NWN2 engine with DR/Lawful, so I don't even know why it's there. Adamantine (lvl 16) becomes moot as well without enemies with DR/Adamantine. So basically it's a sleeper-feat that kicks in at lvl 16, with an extremely narrow and niche application -- Spellcasters using Stoneskin.

I'm pretty sure that Ki Strike is hard-coded, so there's little to be done about it outside of modifying the DR on some of the mobs, or possibly granting a custom feat that grants additional damage types, like Cold Iron or Alchemical Silver. This, I think, would go a long way to bringing the feat (and pure monks) up to their original intended role. However, I'm certain the programming, planning, bug testing, and implementation of that is far more difficult than changing the DR type of a few mobs.

As always, thank you for your thoughts! I look forward to reading more. I would love to hear what the Dev Team makes of all this, too!

~ Moose

[Blackman D]

mobs having proper DR would be nice, but im not the one who makes mobs, tho i do support the idea

and there is a different between gloves and gauntlets; gloves are armor so their metal type doesnt count, gauntlets are weapons but i dont think you can even make them anything aside from iron

but the flat DR (or just high DR in general) is usually done to make it harder for powerbuilds and that of course makes it worse for those that dont powerbuild

[izzul]

Excruciars DR. how to bypass it?