Star Wars- The Last Jedi. (Spoilers)

[aaron22]

OK. pretty surprised this is not already started, but i saw it this weekend and really liked it. Here we can discuss how we felt about the new episode and where it goes from here. theories. mistakes. plot holes. etc.

I recognize that i am certainly influenced by the newness of the movie, but i am also tarnished by the nostalgia of the original 3. with this in mind, i rate this one 3rd with ESB and ANH one and two. good movie none-the-less.

[Dragonslayer]

Super pissed off.

Not because the entire movie was a Trope-killer Base (trademark pending), character assassination of the highest order, and the generation of the question as to why the massive, trillions of individuals in the galaxy put up with either the First Order or the Resistance when both sides severely lack the numbers of either the Old Republic forces or the Empire.

No, I'm angry because they added in a freaking light speed kamikaze. Do you know how many questions this raises?

From Wookiepedia:

"Hyperdrives manipulated hypermatter particles in order to thrust a starship into hyperspace by taking advantage of the wrinkles in the fabric of realspace, whilst still preserving the ship's mass/energy profile.

This shortens journeying distance significantly, allowing the vessel to "jump" from a specific point to another point without having to travel directly between them, therefore reducing journey time by an extraordinarily large margin.

However, large objects in realspace cast "mass shadows" in hyperspace, so hyperspace jumps necessitated very precise calculations. Without those, a vessel could fly right through a star or another celestial body. Because of the danger, there existed predetermined hyperspace routes which interstellar travelers could take."

First, we're saying that hyperspace is essentially another dimension of travel. Which means it doesn't affect stuff in its way, unless there's a gravity well of some kind. In this case, the gravity well affects the ship in hyperspace so that it flies through and tears itself apart. Cool, fine. Makes sense.

But are we really saying a dreadnought is the size of a planet? Or large enough to entertain its own gravity well? And furthermore, are we ignoring the idea that civilizations, when developing massive ships, didn't think to themselves "Hey, why don't we just strap a hyperspace drive to a big rock and aim it at the fleet ships?"

Or even better! Instead of a Death Star, let's aim a whole bunch of droid ships at a planet. See what happens.

[aaron22]

i considered that too.

the whole thing falls apart though as the people inside the craft moving through folded space would not see a stream of lights in their windows like it is in the movies. the movies have never stayed consistent with how hyperspace feels/looks/works. it makes my wonder if there are multiple ways to hyperspace. also how would folding space use propulsion fuel and how come they are using fuel continuously to move in open space at all. obviously to maintain the life support, but that should have been relegated to needed areas and crew using suits in all but the cockpit. these holes have always been in star wars though. its almost like it would be blasphemy to not have them.

[Lockonnow]

and the force come on it is only a movie

[Dragonslayer]

I was only partially joking. The real complaint was all the other stuff I mentioned.

Plus, Porgs.

[aaron22]

my g/f likes the porgs... and baby kroot.

[V'rass]

Bah Jedi poodoo... the Sith shall always rule the galaxy!

[Lockonnow]

it is the end of the skywalker as we know it

[thids]

The movie is garbage. I am pissed for allowing myself to get my hopes up after hearing that JJ won't be directing episode 8.


I'm not going to go through all the ridiculous stuff that happens in this movie, I'm just going to point out two things:

1. They destroyed the character of Luke Skywalker. There's no other way to put it. When the entire galaxy saw Vader as the biggest scumbag and villain in existence, and everyone gave up on him, Luke refused to kill him. He defeated him in combat, and then refused to kill him. Because he still saw hope for Vader. He still saw a glimmer of light in him. And now they are going to have me believe that Luke had a moment where he intended to kill his student, who has not even been turned fully yet? His sisters and best friends son? His nephew? Bull. Shit.

2. Rey is such a garbage character that it's actually infuriating. She had no training ever, she never overcame anything, she simply succeeds at everything. That is not how a narrative is supposed to go. A character is supposed to go through diversities and taste failure before succeeding. Overcoming hardships and getting back up on the horse is what makes that moment when they finally succeed worth it. I heard a comment somewhere, on a stream or a review maybe? Can't remember who said it exactly, but they said that if Empire Strikes Back was made today, Luke would have defeated Vader in Bespin, and the saga would have ended right there. And that is so very true. I don't think that Disney understands what exactly made Episode V such a great movie.

[Lockonnow]

Thids we can only hopes it get better in the last one

[tfunke]

I don't think that Disney understands what exactly made Episode V such a great movie.

It's often forgotten that Empire strikes back was initially critically panned, yet became arguably the sagas best movie, with time. I see this being a similar case with the last jedi.

My initial reaction after seeing it was a feeling of disappointment, which I realized over the next 24 hours of thinking on it, was only because I didn't like Luke's fate. Within 24 hours, my opinion had changed upon reflection. I can't think of another movie that's ever done this to me before.

[Arn]

Overall, I did not find the movie to be very good. It had its moments, but those moments seemed a bit random. It was like a collection of a few cool moments without much plot direction.

I liked the point that even without the Jedi, the Force still exists. I thought Luke showed some Yoda-esque wisdom when he said it was vanity to think otherwise.

I loved Luke's display of his Force powers in the final battle. Very Jedi. It showed us the same Luke who spared his dad, while at the same time showcasing the power and pitfalls of the Dark Side.

I don't even care that Luke dies. We all know what his plan is; I will permadeath a character if he doesn't return as a Force ghost.

1. They destroyed the character of Luke Skywalker. There's no other way to put it. When the entire galaxy saw Vader as the biggest scumbag and villain in existence, and everyone gave up on him, Luke refused to kill him. He defeated him in combat, and then refused to kill him. Because he still saw hope for Vader. He still saw a glimmer of light in him. And now they are going to have me believe that Luke had a moment where he intended to kill his student, who has not even been turned fully yet? His sisters and best friends son? His nephew? Bull. (#2).

I initially agreed with this. I still do, actually. But I don't have as much of a problem with it anymore.
Consider that Vader was Luke's dad, after all. His refusal to kill Vader could have been more of a selfish "Dude you're my dad, I'm not gonna kill you" thing. Kylo was not his dad (I know it's flimsy, especially if you consider that he never knew Vader but he presumably knew Leia, Han, and Kylo very well by the time he considered icing Kylo). When you consider what the movie was trying to say about legends and the pitfalls of hero worship (ie: even legends and heroes are only human), I can forgive this character assassination. Still grossly out of character for Luke, but I get what the movie was trying to say.

2. Rey is such a garbage character that it's actually infuriating. She had no training ever, she never overcame anything, she simply succeeds at everything. That is not how a narrative is supposed to go. A character is supposed to go through diversities and taste failure before succeeding. Overcoming hardships and getting back up on the horse is what makes that moment when they finally succeed worth it. I heard a comment somewhere, on a stream or a review maybe? Can't remember who said it exactly, but they said that if Empire Strikes Back was made today, Luke would have defeated Vader in Bespin, and the saga would have ended right there. And that is so very true. I don't think that Disney understands what exactly made Episode V such a great movie.

Rey had about as much training in The Last Jedi as Luke did in The Empire Strikes Back. I don't find her lack of training any more objectionable than I found Luke's. I agree with everything else. Rey pretty much succeeds at all the things and it is jarring.

And furthermore, are we ignoring the idea that civilizations, when developing massive ships, didn't think to themselves "Hey, why don't we just strap a hyperspace drive to a big rock and aim it at the fleet ships?"

YES. If this was always possible, why didn't the Rebels do this like, ALL THE TIME.

[aaron22]

to add to why luke may do what he did (which is debatable as the two had similar but different stories) lukes version was very similar to how he acted with darth vadar. wants to kill but cannot because he cannot kill something so close to him. the emotional conflict is shared exactly the same in both instances.

the luke of the third trilogy maybe wiser, but is still luke. he did not read the jedi books and yoda knew it because yoda knows luke well enough to know that. if luke had read the books, then that would have seemed OOC for him. he also seems to have some serious PTSD. instead of darth vadar's illusions of omnipotence, luke seems to have grown hopeless and depressed. this spiraled into a chain of events that he self blames. all his heroic deeds being remembered instead as failures. these are both self obsessed reactions to PTSD. so luke and vadar are really not that different in that.

as far as rey goes. i hold on to the feeling that rey may not be the good guy. is this wishful thinking? possibly. ben solo would be a MUCH better hero then rey. and rey, in-turn, a much better villain. i would also like to note that rey (while less evident in TLJ) may very well be autistic. it did rear its head again when she tries to convince luke to teach her the force.

[Dragonslayer]

I have a real problem with how they portrayed Luke.

Like, I get it. This movie is meant to show how people fail, and how they deal with the ramifications of that. Legends are illusion, never meet your heroes, great deeds are done by ordinary people, sure. Totally original, and super edgy, Rian.

But this is Luke goddamn Skywalker we're talking about. Set aside all of his galactic-level deeds and look at how he kept faith in someone everyone told him otherwise. He believed in the goodness of people, in particular his father, to the very end of the original trilogy. He believed in Han, he believed in Vader, his comrades, his masters, and his sister.

And then he see's that Snoke (aka the random villain who was hanging out somewhere for the last however many years of upheaval as a supremely powerful dark side user with no apparent interest in galaxy conquering) has poisoned his nephew, while surrounded by his other students and in the first Jedi Temple created since the fall of the Council.

His first instinct is to murder a child?

They tried to save it by saying "It was a flash, nothing more." Whatever. There's a difference between being alarmed by potential evil, and deciding to cut a child's heart out. The Luke Skywalker who refused to fight a mass murderer because he believed there was good in him would have never entertained such a thought.

[Lockonnow]

Ray is the spirit Emperor Palpatine or she is him look the way she fight