Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

so, it happened again last night. had an adventure with another, he was cool and everything, just one problem: he was about 6 levels higher than me, so our adventuring ended up being me watching him kill everything. death was a relief.

it is my opinion the server needs to be more "pocketed". By that i mean, the over all structure of the layout of the map, and travel, should be designed to encourage players of various levels to be in areas where they are more likely to run into other characters in the same level range.

This, i believe foster more interactive adventuring, more fair and realistic PvP conflict, and better roleplay in general.

the idea of "pocketing" would be to divide the server into 6 areas, separated by chokepoints of drastically higher crs between. Id leave it to the devs to decide what areas/ cities are in what ranges, but it would be something like this:

area I would be for levels 1 - 6. The dungeons would stay in those crs, and the quests would be limited to level 1 - 7 chars. The chests as well would revert back to the old system of chest limitation. chests in this first area would stop giving loot at level 7. The stores would hold +2 items at best, and ideally the auctions would also be separated. the auction here would have a price restriction of only 200 gold. all auctions would have their time limit extende to one week, because they are now separate.

the choke point area would have a cr of 7, that would intentionally scale to cr8 if a level 7 is in it, cr10, if a level 8 is present, cr12 if a level 9 is there, and cr14 if a level 10 or higher is present. It would stop giving loot at level 10. The idea is to discourage, but still allow "backflow" of higher level players from the 7-11 "pocket"

after this would be the "pocketed" areas intended for levels 7 - 11. the chests and quests would be limited to levels 6 - 12.

The next checkpoint would be cr 14. if a level 13 is present, cr would bump to 15, level 14 would trigger cr 16, a level 15 would bring it to its max of cr18.

the next "pocket" would be levels 12 - 17...

the next choke point, level 20 ish...

and so on and so forth.

so why "segregate" the server like this?

1) travel is too easy, and ruins run-in rp chances. teleport around from the nexus, safely and conveniently fly around the sword coast for 50 gp.

with pocketing, your characters could be given a mechanical reason to adventure. levelling up would not just mean getting xp, it would also mean getting past the choke point barrier, to advance to the next pocket, shop better stores and auctions, etc etc. it would be like a rite of passage. you would need to party up to get through. most of the time, who you find to go with you would be in your level range. there may be an odd char who has "backflowed" from the next higher pocket, that can offer passage, but meeting someone from two pockets higher would be quite rare. At least some of the rp would change from "i am about to hunt lizardmen, care to join?" to "i am preparing to adventure to beregost, but will need help..." and " need help" would be actual, mechanical need, not rp invite need.

2) getting paired up with an uber over level is quite dull and boring for most players, i would surmise. I know personally i just avoid a high level when i see it running around slaying goblins with two blows while helping malcom and matty find their key again. I know I am not the only one, because this is almost always mutual. both of us understand what is going on. sometimes there might be a few sentencs exhanged, but they know i dont want to team up with them, and i know they are just questing, and in reality just trying to get the key, pop the chests, and gtfo. Lets be real; the quests in no way encourage rp. in fact, they utterly destroy it, especially when they have no level restrictions. they are basically ooc xp gimmes. (and might i mention, boring as hell when you are far above the cr).

pocketing would keep characters in a tighter level range, encouraging more adventuring where all involved feel at least somewhat useful, perhaps even essential when traversing chokepoints.

3) PvP would improve as well. pocketing would discourage level 20s walking and talking fearlessly while they bully level fives. When chars are pocketed, their pvp interactions would have to be more cautious, unless they intentionally backflowed a couple of pockets just to bully/grief.

4) DM adventures events could be better catered to a tighter range, and avoid some how having to tell a level 24 that this is really a low level event, and he is not invited. As the event progressed, chars could recruit others, without fear of recruiting some one who ends up doing everything, or someone who the dm now feels obligated to create a challenge for. I do not know the minds of any dm, but i get a feeling most events are high level, because high level pcs always end up dominating events.



Honestly, I am done partying up for a while. For me, fighting alone is just so much more gratifying. Because the levels are all so intermixed, when i party up, i am either a) powerless, therefore, i get to do nothing but watch someone grind mosters, or b) im the powerful one, in which case, my new adventure buddy gets to just sit around and watch me slaughter everything, whch is still so dull.


I know there are a host of concerns, like guilds, basic campfire/tea party rp, etc. id be interested in hearing those, as they are not exactly activities i engage in regularly.

NeOmega wrote:so, it happened again last night. had an adventure with another, he was cool and everything, just one problem: he was about 6 levels higher than me, so our adventuring ended up being me watching him kill everything. death was a relief..

I have to ask: how did your Toons meet, and where did they meet?

How do you find time to post this much? Between thayvian and and yourself this forum has been getting a new topic every 5 minuts it feels like. I'm not discouraging it or anything as you usually have some wall text (aka a thought out idea) and don't spam reply or anything.


... I'll go back to my corner now....

first obstacle i see is there are three starting points to the server. one inside city. outside city and soubar (for the bad guys). at least two would be needed i think. unless we make BG a place in a higher CR.

I disagree sorry. I had an adventure last night into the Sharpteeth Woods/Cave that had great RP despite there being a big level difference between the three of us. I was level 14, the others were level 5 and there was one epic (not sure his exact level). Part of the challenge was keeping the level 5 alive, part of his challenge was contributing - which he did. The epic fought the orcs easily but didn't try to take the limelight (his challenge?). I honestly barely noticed the level gaps as we were talking quite a bit in between fights.
A complete server overhaul isn't required for a problem that is minor (and then, only for some). It's an interesting idea but I don't think it's needed. Also, pockets of CR areas will not stop pvp trolling/baiting.

Steve wrote:

NeOmega wrote:so, it happened again last night. had an adventure with another, he was cool and everything, just one problem: he was about 6 levels higher than me, so our adventuring ended up being me watching him kill everything. death was a relief..

I have to ask: how did your Toons meet, and where did they meet?

i play when the server is at about 15 - 20 players. i met them in the underdark in rockrun. no offense to them, as the rp was fine and all. But this has happened so many times, it has become an anaethma to my enjoyment of partying. even when the party starts out in a nice tight range, eventually you run into an op high level. you ask them to join the party, because you are nice, and it makes no sense to say "we are on a quest to do x, but you are too powerful to help" in reality, nobody would refuse the help of a god like hero in their quest. But it must be remembered that finding a reason to adventure is just an excuse to rp adventure. the actual "quest" is not the objective, the adventuring is the objective.

Laughingman wrote:How do you find time to post this much? Between thayvian and and yourself this forum has been getting a new topic every 5 minuts it feels like. I'm not discouraging it or anything as you usually have some wall text (aka a thought out idea) and don't spam reply or anything.


... I'll go back to my corner now....

i work 9 hours a day, 7 days a week at my business. in between customers i post here.
if you really want to know, i spend about 30 minutes as i get ready for work shopping for my magic store. then when i get home, i do it again, then spend a bunch of time thinking about rcring, or maybe doing a dungeon or two. i dont really have a lot of time to play. id definitely play more if i knew the chances of good dungeon rp were higher.

i played at dasaria 2 first, and it had level restricted quests. i had more fun doing those over and over again in groups in six months there, than i have combined here for years. there was one in particular that had all the hallmarks of a good quest, including a nice item for evil chars if you did the side item quest/puzzle. it was always more enjoyable in group than alone although could be done either way. unfortunately dasaria had a pop of 10 when busy, no rig, and stopped at level 20. even so, i almost always found quest mates for a fun time, because the quests were level restricted.

aaron22 wrote:first obstacle i see is there are three starting points to the server. one inside city. outside city and soubar (for the bad guys). at least two would be needed i think. unless we make BG a place in a higher CR.

yeah. basically bg, sshamath, and soubar would need to be hubs of some sort. id think having them be as a choice for your spawn, along with only one other choice, being whereever your pockets inn is at. you would have to reach the inn,mand pay for a room, to make it your newbsecondary choice.

bg, soubar, and sshamath would be free movement from levels 1 - 6, but to go to any other pocket, would require going through one of the chokepoint areas first.

NeOmega wrote:

aaron22 wrote:first obstacle i see is there are three starting points to the server. one inside city. outside city and soubar (for the bad guys). at least two would be needed i think. unless we make BG a place in a higher CR.

yeah. basically bg, sshamath, and soubar would need to be hubs of some sort. id think having them be as a choice for your spawn, along with only one other choice, being whereever your pockets inn is at. you would have to reach the inn,mand pay for a room, to make it your newbsecondary choice.

bg, soubar, and sshamath would be free movement from levels 1 - 6, but to go to any other pocket, would require going through one of the chokepoint areas first.

what is a sshamath?

FAI's interior should be on the same map as the exterior for easy transition. And the whole area outside FAI should be wild with no campfire. Maybe put some bandit ambush spawn points on the roads and wild animals in the forest. This might force people to gather around inside FAI, and the interior (actual inn) would be much easier to access and should be the only way to rest. Maybe add some more merchants for the courtyard too.

Okay, so your experience of playing with another PC that was too high a level for your enjoyment, started in a more or less "level-less" Area, in terms of: it can and should be expected that PCs of varying levels are in Rockrun at any one time.

But...:

NeOmega wrote:But this has happened so many times, it has become an anaethma to my enjoyment of partying.

Please don't take this personally, but do you really think that because you find a personal anathema to choosing to go off and adventure with a too-high-for-my-guy partner, that this requires an ENTIRE Server change, that will effect EVERYONE?!!?

Not to say that my way is the only/best way, but...when I am playing a certain Toon of X Level, I usually a) stick to adventuring in a CR area that is more or less 2 CRs to my PC's Level; b) ask the Player OOC, of any toon that I might go adventuring with, or grinding, or whatever, what Level their Toon is, and if they care whether this may or may not be a problem.

My point is: one can really fix this issue by one's own actions, without requiring everyone else to suffer a massive Server Wide change.

I sincerely hope what I wrote is taken as a "I hope this can really help you out" response, and not a criticizing or negative response against you personally—I can see you have a negative experience, and that sucks, but YOU can make a change, for yourself, besides...just quitting Partying up.

Having said all that, I do and would appreciate that Epic Characters just don't go off adventuring in lower level dungeons, though I know many do and will finish quests weekly (but those quest grinders by now know how to do this so fast and without interrupting anyone else—Inviso!—that it is not and issue). Just as low level Toons cannot go to epic dungeons without getting their arse handed to them, the Epic Levels can please choose to not go lowbie grinding. That way, in general, creates a more or less "pocketed" effect, for the Server.

By standards setup in the core D&D game, Players should be RPing and Gaming within a set 2–3 Level Adventure, just like any D&D Module was "scripted" and setup. The sandbox of BGTSCC is far from that setup, and thus, one will never be able to avoid the occasional interaction with Characters way beyond your own, in both mechanical power and RP/history power.

But that is just how things are, and one can really have a generally good experience besides this, if you just be conscious of the limitations, utilize OOC communication where necessary, and don't do things that are NOT FUN for you, personally.

Cheers.

This is more an issue of Upperdark than server wide. Good loot and good XP from levels ~12-30 means you will run in to a wide range of surface and underdark PCs there.

Perhaps the issue is not that the server needs to be pocketed but instead level gap caps removed instead? Our XP has been capped out at 50 max. There are many areas of similar spawn rate as the supposed epic areas. There really is not an issue in my mind with power leveling at all.

Perhaps it is time to think about what RP can be gained instead of what mechanic we can limit. It is very clear that the main player base here does not play for mechanics nor does it have effect on RP as has been touted time and time again by devs. Removing level caps for parties allows for more RP and groups of varying levels. Yes that low level may not hit a single creature or kill one but I will be damned if they do not contribute in story and RP.......Just my two cents.

Steve wrote:Okay, so your experience of playing with another PC that was too high a level for your enjoyment, started in a more or less "level-less" Area, in terms of: it can and should be expected that PCs of varying levels are in Rockrun at any one time.

But...:

NeOmega wrote:But this has happened so many times, it has become an anaethma to my enjoyment of partying.

Please don't take this personally, but do you really think that because you find a personal anathema to choosing to go off and adventure with a too-high-for-my-guy partner, that this requires an ENTIRE Server change, that will effect EVERYONE?!!?

Not to say that my way is the only/best way, but...when I am playing a certain Toon of X Level, I usually a) stick to adventuring in a CR area that is more or less 2 CRs to my PC's Level; b) ask the Player OOC, of any toon that I might go adventuring with, or grinding, or whatever, what Level their Toon is, and if they care whether this may or may not be a problem.

My point is: one can really fix this issue by one's own actions, without requiring everyone else to suffer a massive Server Wide change.

I sincerely hope what I wrote is taken as a "I hope this can really help you out" response, and not a criticizing or negative response against you personally—I can see you have a negative experience, and that sucks, but YOU can make a change, for yourself, besides...just quitting Partying up.

Having said all that, I do and would appreciate that Epic Characters just don't go off adventuring in lower level dungeons, though I know many do and will finish quests weekly (but those quest grinders by now know how to do this so fast and without interrupting anyone else—Inviso!—that it is not and issue). Just as low level Toons cannot go to epic dungeons without getting their arse handed to them, the Epic Levels can please choose to not go lowbie grinding. That way, in general, creates a more or less "pocketed" effect, for the Server.

By standards setup in the core D&D game, Players should be RPing and Gaming within a set 2–3 Level Adventure, just like any D&D Module was "scripted" and setup. The sandbox of BGTSCC is far from that setup, and thus, one will never be able to avoid the occasional interaction with Characters way beyond your own, in both mechanical power and RP/history power.

But that is just how things are, and one can really have a generally good experience besides this, if you just be conscious of the limitations, utilize OOC communication where necessary, and don't do things that are NOT FUN for you, personally.

Cheers.

iunderstand, but i am not quite sure setting the map, transitions, and starting points so that chars of comparable level ranges would cause "suffering". i tend to think it would cause more enjoyment, and more partying for all involved.

and also understand, this is not a one time thing, but a 95% of the time i party up thing. itnis one of the two main reasons i quit for two years, and one of the main reasons i am considering bailing again. the shopping/magic store thing is fun, in a way, but it is a ton of work, (thats the other reason i left, when i finally felt i was ready... ..i realized i had a ton of real work left to put itball together.)

also, i tend to not like tells. the less tells, the better for immersion, setting, etc.
i have and do ask levels often via tell often. the problem still arises however, that once a party forms, it tends to bring on more members, until eventually the original members are left running around watching the high level kill everything in two blows. This to me, (and many others, i am positive, because i have had the conversation many, many times in my years here), is simply not fun.

chad878262 wrote:This is more an issue of Upperdark than server wide. Good loot and good XP from levels ~12-30 means you will run in to a wide range of surface and underdark PCs there.

No, the underdark/upperdark/surface thing could still be integrated well. this is not a call to re-separate the underdark and surface, as years ago i chimed in i thought making the two a little easier to cross over would be a positive change, and i still feel that it was the right move, (though a bit too easy at the moment).

running into a wide range of levels is the problem, at least to me.