Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

So, I decided to see about making a better throwing specialist than my quickly slapped together attempt in my other thread. After doing a little more research about the settings on the server, I think I have a setup that... works fairly well, actually.

Here is the build in question.

Fighter and Barbarian are the mainstay of this build, with Cleric dipped for access to domain powers and for Turn Undead. If I were making an evil character, I'd probably take Blackguard levels instead (5 of them?) and subtract 2 levels from Fighter. Some tweaking would be necessary.

For the deity, I chose Grumbar as Luck and Darkness are both really good dip choices (Blind Fight and Luck of Heroes? HELL YES!) but either good deity choices exist. Darkness is pretty necessary for Blind Fight, so I'd probably pick a deity like Shar or Selune if I wanted to roleplay the religious aspects (and I probably will pick one or the other). Wood Elves are another good choice for race and can worship Erevan Ilsere, though I'm not sure this is the most roguish character I've ever invented.

Skill points are going to be highly limited. That 100% needs to be understood. Thankfully, we don't have any skill point taxes (No PRCs), so we can simply spend them as we please. This changes if an evil character with the Blackguard class is used instead of Cleric.

This Aasimar setup can't really afford to shift any points away from STR, DEX, or CHA, as that would make getting EDM harder or near impossible. WIS is already at minimum. If more skill points are desired, a hit to CON is the only option, and less than 12 CON for a martial character is pretty much chief among cardinal sins in NWN2.

The spoiler below contains the text I put in the "Build Info" section on the link. If you haven't read it, or would prefer to read it here, well... Here it is.
A few notes I'd like to make:

1. This build probably isn't going to be the best of all ranged builds or anything, but it will have a high attack bonus and a high damage bonus. Its raw damage output is, in fact, probably higher than a Stormlord's. I have my doubts as to whether it'll be as strong as a solid Manyshot Assassin HIPSter with a crossbow.
2. You can boost its static damage in little ways. For instance, bring along a wand of Divine Favor before kicking dungeon doors open; it's not worth casting mid-fight, but just before busting a room open? Sure. And 5% extra to hit never hurt anyone.
3. Like many builds, this one operates best with friends. It's not a particularly sturdy fighter, nor does it have any meaningful spellcasting, and its defenses would be much helped by a friendly buffer. It DEFINITELY wants a bard buddy if possible - more static damage = great, always great. It should, however, solo just fine so long as it's played smartly (and with a decent shield equipped).
4. Its saving throws are a GLARING weakness. Holy poop, they're bad. They're worse still because the build can't fit Steadfast Determination, and worse-worse still if you don't take Luck of Heroes.
5. Combine point 4 with a whopping 12 Constitution for HP, and... ouch.
6. I think one of the biggest challenges for this build is how late it blooms. Cool, you get EDM... at level 29. Cool, you get Northlander Hewing... at level 29. Up until level 29, this build will be pretty average at best, I think. Only once EDM comes into play will its true power be recognized, and even then only in spurts.
7. Finally, you may notice this build does NOT grab Whirlwind Frenzy. This is on purpose. Haste can be procured by other means, and I don't relish the idea of being 10% less likely to hit my enemies because I enter rage. Standard rage will do just fine.

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Okay. Please let the critique begin. I especially want to know if there are any big, glaring weaknesses I failed to spot, or critical feats that are missing. (Again, Brutal Throw is "Use Poison" on NWN2DB, Thrown Weapon Mastery is "Imp. Unarmed Strike" at 27, and Northlander Hewing doesn't arrive until level 29.)

You will have -40% multiclassing experience penalty on a +1 ECL race. That is something truly horrible on this server, I suppose you can push through, but getting only 450 points of experience from a 750 experience point reward is going to sting.

Additionally, you can only take Divine Might on a level that grants Turn Undead. (Such as a cleric level)

Improved Rapid Shot is a feat that you could pass up, or use Divine Champion bonus feats to acquire, along with something like Blindfight.

So... I would actually consider this build instead: http://nwn2db.com/build/?282815 (Evil, follower of Shar, no horrible multiclassing experience penalty, and better saves.)

You can get an amulet with the feats Extra Rage and Extend Rage from the Palace District market sqaure, near the consingment store. It also comes with +3 Natural Armor. Pretty handy thing to have.

Thus if you drink a potion of Bull's Strength and Turn on your rage, you should get 30-32 strength. That is +11 damage per hit. If you drink a potion of Eagle's Splendour, your Epic Divine Might should deal +16 damage per hit. Your feats should grant you +6 damage with Throwing Axes.

Thus if you use normal mundane throwing axes, it is 1d6 + 33 damage per hit. (Double with Manyshot)

Edit: Standard Rage should give you +10 constutituon with a potion of Bear's Endurance, so you get +5 to your Will Saves from that alone. (And the +3 morale Will save bonus, so your saves are pretty decent enough. Oh and +3 against spells from spellcraft.)

Certainly looks good! I'm eyeballing the build to decide where to squeeze in things like Ranged Weapon Mastery and the like for more damage / hit oh, you did that already. My mistake!

One issue I have is that I actually would rather play a non-evil character if possible. Using Divine Champion to keep from suffering a multiclassing penalty... That's clever. Maybe I can go Fighter/Barbarian initially and then slap cleric on later. Steadfast Determination DOES seem 100% necessary with that rage bonus, however.

I'll throw another build here later. Thanks for the advice so far! Again, helping me a lot; and your build is 100% vicious.

You could delay multiclassing experience penalty until level 18, and take Divine might at level 18, and then just take the two missing levels of cleric at levels 19 and 20 to follow the 3 by 20 rule. But then you get hit by -20% multiclassing experience penalty and epic levels are the slowest levels to level up. I am not sure if it is worth it.

As for Neutral Evil character, you could just be doing everything out of sheer self-interest. 'Sure I'll save the farmers from that dragon.' [Because it brings me fame and fortune, and helps me make friends with the powerful goodies of the region... etc... They could die of plague for all I care, but I got an angle of self-benefit here!]

Does rapid shot and northlander work with a thrown weapon ?
And if yes, isn't that a bug that should get fixed ?

I'm a goodie two-shoes player generally, though. It is what it is.

But check these out - they're almost identical except for the race:

Aasimar thrower.

Wood Elf thrower.

The wood elf is looking rather tempting, all things said. 20% XP penalty will suck, but no ECL. It gets more damage overall than your thrower (because it has Epic Weapon Spec), but its defenses are somewhat weaker. Overall, I'd say your build is the outright better build, but this is a solid Good aligned option.

Thoughts?

Also, why would rapid shot working with thrown be a bug? It works with literally every ranged attack option, which is exactly how it works in PnP.

Manyshot in PnP only worked with bows. Should we change it to only work with bows here?

(I'd say 'no' to that.)

But yes, Rapid Shot works with any ranged weapon (including Thrown) on NWN2.

Not sure on Northlander Hewing, though.

Northlander Hewing used to work with ranged weapons (and added damage based on STR at the time of activation) long enough for me to plan out a powerful Barbarian Crossbow Assassin - but then it was changed. Now it only works with melee weapons, alas.

Khazrak wrote:Thoughts?

I had a level 20+ Rogue/Cleric/Hierophant, and then they changed the Darkflame Zealot PRC into a Darkfire Disciple PRC. I really wanted it for my character, and thus I eventually RCR-ed the old character and leveled the new one to 20. It was then that I discovered that I had actually messed up the leveling order. Too much Darkfire Disciple, too little Cleric, and I was short of a single Rogue level to fall under the 3 by 20 rule. There was no DM around to ask for a surgical delevel operation and I had to do the RCR again. Thus I was down to level 14, and with one monolithic quest run I hit the level 15 again. I could lament the massive loss of experience, but it actually gave me some time to rethink the build itself and I really like what I got now.

This is a bit long winded... But the point is, if you have a character that you like to play as, then you will overcome the experience issues.

Also, you cannot use Northlander Hewing with Thrown Weapons.

As for PnP, and throwing builds, go for human Ranger. At level one you can get Quick Draw and Brutal Throw, and at level two you get two-weapon fighting. You can use two-weapon fighting to throw more axes or light hammers, and if something gets close enough - or - you are about to run out out of things to throw, you can just continue hitting in melee! Honestly, if people complain about 'HiPS being OP' - they have not witnessed that Brutal Throw Ranger in action....

I think the best throwing build I ever made was in Pathfinder, and it dealt with getting free DEX-to-damage with the thrown weapons (starknives) I was using. Another fun one was a throwing build that through Kinetic Knight shenanigans got to use Constitution in place of Dexterity and Intelligence for all feat purposes, so I just stacked STR and CON and went full-on TWF throwing beast on a Fighter. Was fun!

I changed the wood elf build slightly, given that Northlander Hewing is not a possibility. I also took off cleave (left it on by accident - whoops!) and I think the build is more effective overall now.

Oh yeah, I didn't mention this before, but if you want to go toe to toe in melee, Northlander Hewing would not have quite made sense with your build. You have a lot of damage coming from EDM, so you kind of want to make as many hits as possible. Thus you actually better off just using Power Attack or not at all. If you spend the Barbarian 10 feat on Great Strength, you should be able to reach 45~ AB, 42~ AB with Power Attack, and that should be more or less enough for the server.

Yeah, that's the conclusion I've come to as well. Just hit level 6 with my wood elf thrower, and I'm happily at 27 AC with my thrown weapon equipped (and I bought a few magical throwing weapons - including 50 +4 1d8 bludgeoning throwing axes - just in case, and was easily able to afford it). I lucked out and found a decent longsword (+1 with +1 piercing) and warmace (+2 with 2d8 massive crits), so I've got good melee options when the enemy closes into melee with me.

Rapid Shot with mundane throwing axes with Point Blank Shot gives me 3 attacks dealing 6-11 damage each, averaging at 8.5 for roughly 25.5 damage a round if they all hit. My sheet says I deal 1d6+9 damage in rage with Point Blank Shot factored in, and it certainly feels like it. It's... not bad, though I'll be happier when I finally get Divine Might.

Overall, the build works well. It solos fine, though it'll be way better when I get Steadfast Determination and get that amulet with extra/extend rage.

Khazrak wrote:So, I decided to see about making a better throwing specialist than my quickly slapped together attempt in my other thread. After doing a little more research about the settings on the server, I think I have a setup that... works fairly well, actually.

Here is the build in question.

Fighter and Barbarian are the mainstay of this build, with Cleric dipped for access to domain powers and for Turn Undead. If I were making an evil character, I'd probably take Blackguard levels instead (5 of them?) and subtract 2 levels from Fighter. Some tweaking would be necessary.

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Okay. Please let the critique begin. I especially want to know if there are any big, glaring weaknesses I failed to spot, or critical feats that are missing. (Again, Brutal Throw is "Use Poison" on NWN2DB, Thrown Weapon Mastery is "Imp. Unarmed Strike" at 27, and Northlander Hewing doesn't arrive until level 29.)

I had started to look into EDM thrower with HIPS and realized that EDM Archer was still better IMO:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?282366

Unlimited invisibility and haste with HIPS seemed quite nice as a platform for ranged build and went from there.

You can't get Ranged Mastery with throwing weapons unfortunately.

Although there are some glaring weaknesses.

Could probably delay Blackguard levels to get Ranged Mastery earlier.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49036 <= Weapon Mastery, Throwing is listed in there.

WM (Throwing) can be taken and works. I have it on a build.