Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I'm not sure if this already exists, but as far as I know this doesn't seem to exist.

It's basically as the subject - but let me elaborate a little here, I think it would be best if such was pre-world rather than existing as a tool.

There are many reasons why one would want or need to change alignment, where it would be quite normal for characters who's gone through various experiences that they would change, but it just as well be because they need to meet an alignment requirement for a prestige class, of course any change in alignment should be roleplayed as should the new alignment. If a change in alignment were to make one suddenly meeting requirements of a class, prestige class, deity, item, etc. Then of course this would cause one to become restricted in regards to this respectively.

What do you think?

Ps. I was due to a post I saw earlier that got me thinking about such a tool, where it would be beneficial to have such, but not only this, because sometimes we need to update our characters to better reflect our characters alignment if changes happened that would such a change necessary.

This opens up for exploits such as Bard/Paladin. In addition, from an IC standpoint the DMs have previously stated that only they should have the power to change alignment for a PC since it takes RP to show the change over time. Having a tool would allow a character to act with impunity and if a DM were to grant 'evil points' the player could OOC'ly undue that IC consequence with the click of a button.

In the end, alignment restrictions should be planned for in your build and you should not be building on the assumption that you will start with one alignment and then manage to switch alignments so you can take some other class. No Monk/Frenzied Berzerkers!

chad878262 wrote:This opens up for exploits such as Bard/Paladin. In addition, from an IC standpoint the DMs have previously stated that only they should have the power to change alignment for a PC since it takes RP to show the change over time. Having a tool would allow a character to act with impunity and if a DM were to grant 'evil points' the player could OOC'ly undue that IC consequence with the click of a button.

In the end, alignment restrictions should be planned for in your build and you should not be building on the assumption that you will start with one alignment and then manage to switch alignments so you can take some other class. No Monk/Frenzied Berzerkers!

How would it open any exploits such as Bard/Paladin? Because if a change is made that where you have a class, item, etc. depends on it, then it will have consequences - like with the Bard/Paladin.

Say a bard want to class into Paladin, but can't because the alignment is non-lawful - so therefor the character chooses to reform to the lawful alignment and adhere to the tenets of the Paladin code. Now this character wil be an Ex.Bard/Paladin. Say, if the character later decides to change back to non-lawful, then the character would IMMEDIATELY become an EX.Paladin and wouldn't just be able to change back as the character would have to atone for his violations.

Additionally, the use of the tool could be limited to a certain amount of uses and even disabled the players who've abused the tool. I think it would be possible to flag characters who've used the tool and how many times they've used it, and if so then the dm's could quite easily if its being abused and by who. In regards to if they've granted alignment points then I assume they could just disable the tool for that character.

It is already possible the through Role-play, a DM can and will change your Character's Alignment. It does happen!

What makes for a greater possibility of this happening is if you document the IG RP with Journal posts, and build out the storyline, via the Forum.

An Alignment Changer NPC will 99.9% never happen. Even though I'd love to have a Bardic Monk Frenzied Berzerker build, I know it would be a Character based on near abusive mechanics.

Steve wrote:An Alignment Changer NPC will 99.9% never happen. Even though I'd love to have a Bardic Monk Frenzied Berzerker build, I know it would be a Character based on near abusive mechanics.

How will you be able to abuse it for powerbuilds if changing alignment will make you ex. in something else? Please elaborate.

Nwn2 doesn't have "ex" mechanics. You'll no longer be able to level of your alignment changes but you retain allb abilities.

chad878262 wrote:Nwn2 doesn't have "ex" mechanics. You'll no longer be able to level of your alignment changes but you retain allb abilities.

Thats odd, because BGT:SCC's wiki says differently.

"Ex-Paladins = A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). He may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. He regains his abilities and advancement potential if he atones for his violations as appropriate."

Source: BGT:SCC Wiki - Paladin

...to me the above seems to indicate there certainly is the EX.Class mechanic.

Besides, a player could still roleplay the change into lawful once he has what he need from the other classes.

If you break the paladin code or habe an alignment shift I'm pretty sure the DM Team will force you to RCR unless you RP atonement. Mechanics and rules are not always the same thing, at times dm team has to manually enforce rules.

Edit to add, a player could rp alignment change in order to power build, but the dm team isn't stupid and such would likely result in some punishment.

chad878262 wrote:If you break the paladin code or habe an alignment shift I'm pretty sure the DM Team will force you to RCR unless you RP atonement. Mechanics and rules are not always the same thing, at times dm team has to manually enforce rules.

Edit to add, a player could rp alignment change in order to power build, but the dm team isn't stupid and such would likely result in some punishment.

I can see, that NWN2 does have the Ex.Class mechanic, so its weird if its not here as well.

If a paladin shifts alignment, why should the player be forced to RCR unless atonement is accomplished, the character would be a worse fighter than a standard fighter - so why?

Why should players be punished for rp'ing a character that happen to take some unusual class combinations, even if they're powerful combinations, especially if it makes sense for character to in its current situation?

because this is not pnp. You do not have a personal dm overseeing and balancing the game world just for you or a small group. This is a server where the game is a somewhere between crpg and pnp. Because you are playing with others rules are in place to keep balance against the environment. In addition, rules are also in place to protect the lore of forgotten realms and server history. You may want to play a chaotic good paladin/ warlock/ monk/ frenzied berserker, but others might find such to be jarring in our setting.

If you really have some specific build/ rp in mind i suggest you send a pm to the dm staff, but i wouldn't get your hopes up.

We don't let people change their own alignments easily to keep people from making sudden alignment shifts for mechanical advantage alone that the DMs feel have not been appropriately earned through roleplay.

Obviously this change can still be done by RCRing, but there is a cost of removed experience involved which stands to generally deter players from shifting their alignment frivolously.

chad878262 wrote:because this is not pnp. You do not have a personal dm overseeing and balancing the game world just for you or a small group. This is a server where the game is a somewhere between crpg and pnp.

If you really have some specific build/ rp in mind i suggest you send a pm to the dm staff, but i wouldn't get your hopes up.

No, its not PnP, but NWN2 has Ex.Classes built in, so they don't have to oversee anything in that regard if someone had a different alignment that would make them Ex. something, as the game should handle this automatically.

chad878262 wrote:Because you are playing with others rules are in place to keep balance against the environment. In addition, rules are also in place to protect the lore of forgotten realms and server history. You may want to play a chaotic good paladin/ warlock/ monk/ frenzied berserker, but others might find such to be jarring in our setting.

See thats one of the reasons why the Ex.Class mechanic exists. Say if someone wanted to play a chaotic good paladin/warlock/Monk/Frenzied Berserk - whether they did it with the tool or they did it through roleplay they would still become Ex-paladin & Ex-Monk, they'd lose ALL paladin abilities and become a weaker a fighter, they'd not be able level monk any longer, and they'd only be able to level frenzied berserker and warlock - and if they kept switchin back and forth, then obviously they're abusing the system.

Besides, should any player try to "cheat" or abuse the system and rules, then obviously they should be punished.

Simply put, ex classes are not implemented. Start a new game in the oc with a paladin, use the console to give xp and level up af few levels, then change alignment to neutral good and level up as a bard... you won't be able to take paladin on the level up screen, but will retain all paladin abilities. The description in the wiki is taken from source books, but isn't actually implemented in game iirc. I might be able to test it in Wednesday if you don't know how to do it, but in fairly certain the engine is not coded to support fallen paladin or anything like that.

chad878262 wrote:Simply put, ex classes are not implemented. Start a new game in the oc with a paladin, use the console to give xp and level up af few levels, then change alignment to neutral good and level up as a bard... you won't be able to take paladin on the level up screen, but will retain all paladin abilities. The description in the wiki is taken from source books, but isn't actually implemented in game iirc. I might be able to test it in Wednesday if you don't know how to do it, but in fairly certain the engine is not coded to support fallen paladin or anything like that.

It is on BGTSCC. If your alignment shifts from Lawful Good and you have Paladin levels you'll get a permanent 100% spell failure. I'm not sure about your feats, though. Same for Clerics who end up in violation of the 1-step rule from alignment shifts.

You continue to keep your feats and abilities after a change of alignment in the associated classes. It is only the spells that are disabled. You do not take Paladin, Blackguard or Bard for the spells however. This is also irrelevant.


You, the player, do not need the ability to change your alignment after character creation.

If events occur that you believe deem a change of alignment, you are able to interact with DM's in game and on the forums to see their opinions and have them change your character on a per-event basis. Precisely as would be the case in a pnp session.

There is no situation in game that would have this need arise short of the desire to build an otherwise unavailable class combination.