Summoner/conjurer/otherwise minion master-ish build advice

[Abox18]

want to make some kind of summoner, is there a cap to how many active summons my character can have at once? Is there anyway to increase that number if there is?

Secondly, what builds have you had the most fun with (That uses a summon in combat or whatever)... and why? If you want to post a build link, cool. If not, cool.


Please be open to questions, this is gonna be my first character since my pc decided to become a bbq about a year ago. Rip Alienware. Lol.

[chad878262]

druid or cleric with animal domain/ Thaumaturge or cleric or wizard/ Thaumaturge/ techsmith of gond.

You can only have one summon plus one cohort plus one animal companion iirc.

[Abox18]

You can only have one summon plus one cohort plus one animal companion iirc.

I haven't actually gotten into the game to see the spells and their descriptions yet(Nor have I looked here on the forums). This might sound stupid, but is there a way to tell the difference between those three in game? Will the spell tell me somehow, or should I maybe jot down what summon is what?

[Apis]

Here is a good baseline of what they have here:

https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Summoning

[MrPsion]

Please note Druid spell list has no spells that are compatible with the feat granted at Thaumaturge lv 5

[metaquad4]

I suppose if you wanted to push for the very most summons, you could do a Cleric 5/Techsmith 10/Thaumaturge 5/Hierophant 10.

That'd consume 5/7 of your pre-epic feats. You'd also want to use one epic feat on epic spell focus conjuration to boost your summon and cohort's HD.

Techsmith gives you an "animal companion" slot in the form of its Gondsman.

Thaumaturge gives you a "cohort" slot in the form of its Contingent Summoning (though, unless clerics can lose spells, this will unfortunately result in summon creature IX as contingent summoning is based on known spells instead of memorized spells for some strange reason.).

Thaumaturge also extends your Greater Planar Ally spell, allowing you to have it out until your next rest.

So, you'd be able to have 3 summons out, as well the ability to buff them very well. Cleric buffs are the very best for "fighter" types, featuring many mass buffs and healing spells, as well as a very poor repertoire of offensive spells thus allowing you to focus on buffing, healing, and support spells.

As for your own character, you could either go a strength or wisdom build.

A strength build would be potent enough, allowing you to fight alongside your summoned creatures.

That said, if you did go a wisdom build, having fire domain is invaluable. It grants the spell "fire seeds" which allows you (for a gold cost) to create alchemist fire flasks (perfected, once you reach a high caster level) which do pretty good damage (60-80) and allow you to compensate for cleric's poor offensive spells. Though, you will want some strength to carry them around too (as you are in fullplate). 14 natural strength with an extended bull's strength on would likely be sufficient, and you can always load extra flasks onto your packhorse. Plus, techsmith also allows you to craft smoke powder bombs, making a grenadier build quite viable. Though, you would want to be careful of friendly fire when it comes to your summons.

Gond also gives access to two other potent domains: Luck and Earth. Personally, I'd favor Luck. Without many metamagic feats, greater spell mantle can be very potent for blocking spells (as you won't generally have empower for regular spell mantle). That is in addition to granting luck of heroes for free.

Important feats include:

(Required)
--Spell Focus Conjuration, Greater Spell Focus Conjuration (Thaumaturge).
--Craft Wonderous Item, Skill Focus Craft Armor or Skill focus Craft Weapon or Skill Focus Craft Alchemy (Techsmith).
--Any Metamagic Feat (Hierophant).

(Essential)
--Spell Focus Conjuration, Greater Spell Focus Conjuration, Epic Spell Focus Conjuration.
--Extend Spell (which is a metamagic feat!).
--Craft Wonderous Item, Skill Focus Craft (Armor/Weapon/Alchemy).
--Epic Gate (consumes a summon slot when used).

(Nice to Have)
--Tower Shield Proficiency (Especially for WIS based, more AC can't hurt).
--Able Learner (To help with skill points, take as early as possible). You'd be taking it at level 12, unless you are a human.
--Blindfight. This is a must-have if you go STR, and it is still pretty useful for WIS-based, as your bombs are all ranged touch attacks.

For the rest of your feats, take 3 Great STR or 3 Great WIS depending on the route you are taking for your build.

For Hierophant, as it gets 5 of its very own special feats:

--Blast Infidel, especially if you are WIS based.
--Spellpower +1, +2, and +3. (3 feats total)
--Inscribe Rune (extra spell slot that you use like an item, at the cost of the gold used to craft it).

Level order would go something like this:

1-5: Cleric. Take Spell Focus Conjuration at 1, take Greater Spell Focus Conjuration at 3. This will also boost your summons for low level grinding. Make sure you have enough skill points for thaumaturge by level 5. NOTE: If you are human, take able learner at level 1.

6-10: Thaumaturge. Now you want to focus on taking Techsmith of Gond's requirements. At 6, take craft wonderous item. At 9, take your skill focus feat.

11-17: Techsmith. Now you want to get into your techsmith levels. If you want able learner, level 12 is a good time to pick it up. If not, take whatever else at 12. At 15, take extend spell.

18-21: Hierophant. Now you pick up Hierophant. Take Blindfight, Tower Shield Proficiency, or another thing if you want at 18, and at 21 pick up Epic Spell Focus Conjuration.

22-24: Techsmith. Finish off your techsmith levels. Pick up Great WIS or STR at 23.

25-30: Hierophant. Finish your leveling with Hierophant levels. Pick up Epic Gate at 25, and pick up Great WIS or STR at 27 and 29.

If you don't take able learner, you will need to be careful with skill points. You need Lore: The Planes 8, Diplomacy 6 for Thaumaturge, Craft Armor 6, Craft Weapon 6, Craft Alchemy 6 ranks for Techsmith, and Lore: Religion 15 for Hierophant.

Additionally, you'll want the following:
33 Concentration.
27 Spellcraft by level 25. 30 Spellcraft by level 30, if you can squeeze it in.
10 Tumble.
13 Use Magic Device.
33 Diplomacy.


Finally, 33 Diplomacy may seem a bit nonsensical for a powerbuild, but:
A) It is used in the tome system, which are essentially the summon equivalent to epic gear.

B) Its good to have for RP anyway, as it will likely be called upon to use your skills in events. Not to mention diplomacy is generally a powerhouse skill for RP anyway (what I call "RP power", differentiated from "Mechanical power" in that it tends to grant heavy RP advantages).

[Arn]

...That is the most detailed build advice I have ever seen.

[Sun Wukong]

Secondly, what builds have you had the most fun with (That uses a summon in combat or whatever)... and why? If you want to post a build link, cool. If not, cool.

The undead will rub people in the wrong way, but cleric spell list has a spell called Desecrate, which makes Animate Dead spell far more potent.

Thus, I would feel inclined to make a wisdom based Cleric of Bane with Tyranny and Law domains. I would go for build such as a Cleric 6/Dreadmaster 10/Hierophant 10/'Warpriest or Blackguard 4' to get spell DCs as high as possible.

You would have Create Greater Undead to fill your summon slot, you would get your Dreadmaster Cohort to fill the cohort slot, thanks to Tyranny domain you have Dominate Monster spell which you can use to get something in the dominate slot, and finally you can make use of Desecration and Animate Dead to fill your swarm lot.

Thus... you could have a literal small army running at your heels.

[Hawke]

Lot's of good info.

If you haven't already, clicking on the wiki is SUPER important to understand the changes and hard work that has gone into the new system.

http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Summoning

Hidden: show

"Summoned" Creatures go into different slots:

Summon Slot (Summon Creature, Planar Calling, Palemaster's Vampire, Deadwalk, Epic Gate, etc)
Cohort Slot (Blackguard's Hellhound, Thaumaturge's Cohort)
Illusion Slot (Malicious Image, Programmed Image, etc)
Copy Slot (Shadow Simulcarum)
Dominate Slot (Dominate Person, Dominate Monster)
Swarm Slot (Lure Shadow Demons, Animate Dead, Conjure Animals, Conjure Metalman, etc)
Animal Slot (Animal Companions, Techsmith's Gondsman, Negative Plane Avatar)
Familiar Slot (Familiars, Improved Familiars)

Now I have a few Thaumaturges, mostly wizard, but started up one Sorcerer (which is harder than one would think).

How many summons can you have out at one time? Theoretically, 8.

Now as having a Drizard, you start summoning familiars, druid companions, two planar beings,,,, stuff starts getting unstable. On a handle of occasions I have lost a summons in my "party" window, but they still fought for me. Anyways....

You really should have a goal in mind. Gondsman is good, but has drawbacks (I have a post here talking about the issues, like losing an equipped weapon on reset forever). I have a PC that is 18 right now with a level 6 Gondsman. It is mediocre at best to have out. AC is great, but with 2 attacks per round. Compare that with me having 2 planar beings with 4+ attacks per round, higher AB (lower ac but good enough) and you cannot compare.

I hear it can get good in the upper levels.

Keep in mind, with any summons you have out, you are using about a half dozen spells to get it into competition shape, not to mention required feats. So keep that in the back of your mind.

Speaking of feats.... Consider the Leadership Feat if you want an overall boost over your summons. +1 AB to all of them, and -1 to all your saves. Just saying.

If you are not going full CL... your summons will be dispelled. And it is not fun. I noticed this happening before I got practiced spellcaster, then when I got the feat and back to max caster level, never lost a summons from a dispel.

People shake their head at me, but my Drizard is pretty fun, and even though druid companion is just for show, it still is a blast to play.

Another good build that I have been playing of late is Wizard/Rogue/Thaum/Techsmith. It gives some skill points and access to a lot of skills, Plus the RP into Techsmith and Planar calling.


With all that said. Look at the new classes since last year. Yes, NEW classes. Especially with arcane. Like the Harper Mage. Same feats to unlock it, but it gives you like 4 feats back, plus some nice RP abilities and skill lines.

Anyhow, good luck and if you have questions, please feel free to hit me up. Also, IRC is a great way to get some immediate answers!

[aaron22]

Secondly, what builds have you had the most fun with (That uses a summon in combat or whatever)... and why? If you want to post a build link, cool. If not, cool.

The undead will rub people in the wrong way, but cleric spell list has a spell called Desecrate, which makes Animate Dead spell far more potent.

Thus, I would feel inclined to make a wisdom based Cleric of Bane with Tyranny and Law domains. I would go for build such as a Cleric 6/Dreadmaster 10/Hierophant 10/'Warpriest or Blackguard 4' to get spell DCs as high as possible.

You would have Create Greater Undead to fill your summon slot, you would get your Dreadmaster Cohort to fill the cohort slot, thanks to Tyranny domain you have Dominate Monster spell which you can use to get something in the dominate slot, and finally you can make use of Desecration and Animate Dead to fill your swarm lot.

Thus... you could have a literal small army running at your heels.

i have this and it is called "trouble maker". i cannot go anywhere with this. bluff would be a good skill to have with this build as everywhere you go you will get stopped and asked "what in the name of the dukes are you doing!!!!???" everywhere. all the time.

[Hendrak]

That Cleric/Dreadmaster/Hierophant can also add Thaumaturge for another companion.

Someone counted them?

1 dominate monster, 1 cohort, 1 planar, 1 "normal" summon = 4 , right?

[aaron22]

DM has a cohort and i dont think you can have two cohorts

edit and planar is a normal summon. so can have cohort (DM) + GPB + Dom. Mon.(Bane) + Animate Dead (swarm up to 5). yea.. army of explain yourself please.

[Sun Wukong]

Explain? Let the army explain itself!

[Abox18]

So. much. Advice.

Thanks.

[Hendrak]

The Lord of Tyranny himself (aka Valefort) did one such build:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?275462

extended greater undead, dominated monster, Dreadmaster cohort.

augment summoning and beckon the frozen