Fast healing feats con requirement

[equilibrion]

I know in pnp it was even higher (25 con, though effect was stronger), but still, why so high for fast healing 2/3? EDR feats have equal benefits in general, and 21 points in con allows to maxout the whole line without investing in con additionally.In fact, fast healing 2 or 3 costs two feats each (or feat+ability point).AFAIK, fast healing can't overcome healing kits used by pc with high/medium heal skill.In many cases, even vampiric weapon property gives more total heal then fast healing feats. So what's the point of 22 and 23 constitution requirement, has it any hidden advantages or..?

[Steve]

Its my opinion that yes, one is better off even with +1 vamp regen weapons, or DR.

One benefit is the Fast Healing should work in Polymorph/Shapechange, since you cannot use Heal Kits in a form.

[Sun Wukong]

There are power builds that get 21 constitution for the Epic Damage Reduction feats. If Fast Healing feats required 21 constitution, then already tanky Dwarven Defender builds could easily get even tankier. Hence there is the higher constitution requirement as it means that the Fast Healing feats come at the expense of damage output. You have to get more constitution, so that means less strength, which translates to less AB and Damage per hit.

[equilibrion]

. Hence there is the higher constitution requirement as it means that the Fast Healing feats come at the expense of damage output. You have to get more constitution, so that means less strength, which translates to less AB and Damage per hit.

ATM, trading strength points for con and fast healing feats totally not worth it. Losing 4 points of strength on two-handed build for example, deprives it 2 ab and 3 dmg per hit.He can use these bonuses as often, as he lands hits.In exchange he gets fast healing 2 and a bit more hp (2 con points and 2 feats).

But yes, dwarven defenders are unkillable even without fast healing feats, no need making them tougher.On the other hand, EDR feats are way more popular, then fast healing feats, very few builds can afford both feat lines and stay balanced in offence/defence ratio, most just stop on EDR.

If, say, the requirements and effects were changed to:
21 con - 3 hp/round
23 con - 6 hp/round
25 con - 9 hp/round
would fast healing be more balanced?Thus, one needs only two feats to get to 6 hp/round, and gets an extra reg point with first feat. Probably, more builds could include these feats as alternative to EDR without losing power?

[Valefort]

Alternatively you can consider the fact that powerbuilding is by no means necessary and that going fast healing will still work very well.

[Steve]

...consider the fact that powerbuilding is by no means necessary ...

LOL. I didn't know French people were so funny!

[Valefort]

You know it's true ..

[Sun Wukong]

Alternatively you can consider the fact that powerbuilding is by no means necessary and that going fast healing will still work very well.

For example a constitution based Fey-lock does very well with the Fast Healing feats. Epic Damage Reduction does not stack with the Warlock Cold Iron damage reduction, and therefore Fast Healing just heals and heals and heals, while the warlock just spams and spams that Eldritch Chain.

But I guess that would be a Power Build of sorts.

Anyhow, Fast Healing has its perks over Epic Damage Reduction. For example, when you party up you do not end up taking as much damage as you would while soloing. There is just more people around you, more sponges to absorb the hits. Thus the damage you take is damage you can just let heal on its own. There is no need to spam healing kits every now and then, nor for the healer of the party to waste a spell on you. You are taking less damage over all and the actual benefit of the stock DR is thus reduced.

[Valefort]

Not to mention that even if you're trying to fight monsters all the time there are plenty of rounds where you're not being damaged, fast healing feats are superior to EDR imo.

[Steve]

So, let's say my Toon has 15/- DR. That's per hit upon my Toon. At most, with Epic Fast Healing, plus Regen cloak +1, plus potion of Vigor +2 per round, that's 9 HP per round against like 15 x X saved HP per round?!?

Not to forget to mention I can burn a half-round using a Heal Kit in combat (!!!!) for 33+ HP recovery undisturbed, OR, a Heal Potion for 150 hp.

Epic Fast Healing...meh.

[Valefort]

How many rounds without being hit at all though ? 95% of the rounds ?

[Steve]

How many rounds without being hit at all though ? 95% of the rounds ?

Not enough...before I need my next Kill Fix.

But even with your reply, I can as easily park my Toon in a safe corner, go AFK for a 7UP and some Cheetos while my simple Regen Cloak does it's job.

But Time is Money, mate, and I'm gonna vote for blowing 1k coin on a Heal Pot over waiting to complete my run.

Oh...did I mention TWF +3 vamp regen weapons?!?!

[Valefort]

The less frquently they hit you the more interesting fast healing feats are, compared to EDR.

Let's assume a mob deals you 35 damage, let's say you have the 3 EDR feats you're down to 26 damage, 26 rounds before being back to full health, assuming a regen cloak.

Now if you have fast healing III + a regen cloak you take 35 damage but in 5 rounds you're back to full health, ie for the next enemy to come around. Not to mention all the various elemental damage you can take along the ride.

Obviously if you're facing enemies that will hit you often then EDR is better, but fast healing + high AC is nothing to sneeze at, vamp regen weapons are obviously excellent for sustainability, let's hope these never become so common that everyone has some.

[equilibrion]

The less frquently they hit you the more interesting fast healing feats are, compared to EDR.

I would say, the less frequently they hit pc, the less sense to have maxed EDR or fast healing feats at all, negligible damage can be easily countered without investing in any feats . I compared both feat lines considering pc's hit not only on 20's.

[Valefort]

Your call, fast healing feats are free healing. Burning through heal kits or potions is not always desireable or easy (low STR characters can't really have 40+ heal kits and heal potions are expensive).