Sneaker Build Question

[arctic_cold]

Haven't played a sneak character in awhile. Would like the build to be playable (solo and group) throughout the PvE leveling process (to level 30) on BGTSCC.

My initial build is http://nwn2db.com/build/?283341.

Any suggestions on the build? (Missing any key feats/abilities? Any feats should be removed?)

Any recommendations on the progression of areas/zones to emphasize from level 1-30 would be helpful?

[chad878262]

toughness/ steadfast is a waste as your fortitude and will saves are still bad even with +6 vs spells from spell craft.

With 17 rogue levels you will really appreciate blinding strike.

Really aught to max spot... healing skill or open locks can lose a few points if necessary.

By spreading out cleric levels at 2, 11 and 20 you may find that able learner isn't needed. Seems a waste on a rogue build.

I've said it elsewhere, but i really think skill focus hide and maybe stealthy are deserving of strong consideration for any sneak. The more stealth the better... especially if you ever plan on trying to spy on other players! if you're just thinking pve 79 is fine for all but the 1% spotter mobs and a couple of the highest cr areas.

Don't expect feint to work often. You really have to focus on it to get decent mileage out of it and on the surface it's still not a sure thing.

I'll try to get you some decent areas to frequent while leveling tomorrow.

[Sun Wukong]

If you want to be a feinter on the surface, I would recommend something like a Fighter 14/Rogue 16 build. You wear fullplate and tower shield for AC, instead of dexterity you pump out your strength modifier as high as possible. Then you spend all your feats on +Bluff, AB, Power Attack, and Shield related feats. You can do it with any race you want and avoid multiclassing experience penalty.

Thus if you cannot feint, maybe you can get some sneak attacks in through Shield Slam, if that doesn't work either you got that high strength, power attack and AB feats to just bash skulls.

Saves can be a bit low--- though. But you can get steadfast thanks to those figther levels.

[Sun Wukong]

Haven't played a sneak character in awhile. Would like the build to be playable (solo and group) throughout the PvE leveling process (to level 30) on BGTSCC.

Any recommendations on the progression of areas/zones to emphasize from level 1-30 would be helpful?

As a sneaking rogue you are extremely item dependant and that fact alone does determine where you can go and where you cannot. For example, if you can start your character with something like +20 to your stealth skills by muling some Seven Suns and Mask store equipment, you will be able to sneak through low level areas with ease.

But I will assume that you start out with nothing and at level one.

At 1st level: Do quests.

• There are two quests in the Eastern Farmlands, one is to catch a rat in the field and another is to fill some straw men on that same field. Do both.
• In the Docks district you should start the Stolen Goods quest in the Merchant League Building, offer to help deliver things for for the poor sod by the sea, offer to help find the Crew for Captain Caligo Flint, and offer to fetch weapons for the sargeant before the Lords' Alliance building (Iron Throne).
• In the Palace distric Lady Adora is missing her bracelet and that is another good quest to take.

Doing most of the above quests should be enough to get you to level two, and you should buy some Backpack of the Hearty from Maltz for +5 HP.

At 2nd level: Stolen Goods Quest and looting the bandit cave.

• Enter Northern Farmlands, a map with large market faire, and an Amphitheatre, you can find a bandit cave in the North-Western corner of the map.
• Loot the cave, slay the bandits, run around in circles, and click on all the barrels and sacks to retrieve stolen goods for the quest.
• I would avoid the BG graveyard. The undead have DR, and you need to switch between slashing and blunt weapons to get through it.

At 3rd level~ and beyond: Head south from the Eastern Farmlands and you will find a large bridge, on the southern bank of river Chiontar, there is a hill with ruins on it. Go there.

• At first you should see how well you do in the first level and against the kobolds, take it easy, don't rush around and you should be able to make do.
• Loot the first level whenever you can.
• Party up, and don't forget to add 'LFG' as your Scrying message. People will join you there.
• Go deeper, and deeper when you feel you can. Bring some healing kits.

And with that you should be able to afford some rudimentary stealth gear from Seven Suns and Mask Store. Those can be bit pricey though, so do check the in game consingment store for bargains. You want higher AC, and you also need more stealth, it is a pickle of a situation.

Feel free to buy potions such as Barkskin for some easy extra AC.

My initial build is http://nwn2db.com/build/?283341.

Any suggestions on the build? (Missing any key feats/abilities? Any feats should be removed?)

I would switch Trickery domain for Darkness domain as that grants you free Blind Fight feat. Feint doesn't really do anything on this server without dedicated feinter build. And as Chad said, the higher your stealth, the better you are. I would want earlier PTWF, but I do not see an easy way to get it any earlier.

[chad878262]

Good advice from Wukong... With regard to area's, here is a list of the area's by CR through 10. I have highlighted red the one's that are most suitable for a rogue. Note that, for the most part when solo you really want to go to an area that is 1-2 CR below your level and with dynamic spawns, CR5+ area's can increase by up to 2 CR solo. So when level 8, you should still be in CR5-6 when solo.

once you get to ~11th level you can use invisibility and haste potions to run through Troll Claws to get to Titanfist mine. Whenever you have enough UMD and gold to get a Deathward Wand and afford other consumables like IMA wand/potions and heroism pots you can advance to Kro's labyrinth (usually around level 13-15) and then Kro's Descent (~level 17-18). Kro's Labyrinth/Descent will likely remain the best place to level until you are about 23rd level. Just remember Deathward, otherwise the poison will make the area difficult...without poison to worry about you should be fine.

Soubar well : CR 0.5
East Chionthar : CR 1
BG, graveyard : CR 1.5
BG, graveyard cave : CR 2
Soubar ruins : CR 2
Kobolds : CR 2
Bladelings : CR 2.5
BG, east gate sewers : CR 2.5
Trade Way, south of BG : CR 2.5
Soubar, Bane temple : CR 2.5
Boareskyr Bridge bears : CR 3
Gibberling : CR 3
East Chionthar ruins : CR 3
BG, palace's district sewers : CR 4
East cloakwood : CR 4
Boareskyr : CR 4
Lion's way : CR 5-6
Ant burrow : CR 6
North of Beregost, goblins : CR 6
Cloakwood mine, level 1-2-3 : CR 6
Ulgoth's island : CR 6
Goblin mine : CR 7
Thundar's Ride : CR 7
Bridgefort : CR 7
BG, sewer bowels : CR 8
High Hedge : CR 8
Sharp Teeth : CR 8
Lion's way gnolls : CR 8
Cloakwood central : CR 8
Dragonspear exterior and castle : CR 9
Minotaurs : CR 10
BG, Undercity : CR 10

[arctic_cold]

Thanks all for the sneak build suggestions and leveling tips!!

For the dexterity-focused updated build, the H/MS skills were raised by 7 points. Replaced cleric/assassin with fighter/shadowdancer(lost death attack). Added blinding strike.

Updated build is http://nwn2db.com/build/?283765 where the blank level 18 feat is Blinding Strike.

Any other ideas for improving the stealth ability while maintaining the current epic feats?

[Sun Wukong]

You should swap Dodge and Weapon Finesse feats. Its nicer to have more AB at level 2 rather than at level 3. Weapon Finesse is one of the Figther Bonus feats.

You could lower your dexterity by dropping some of the Great Dexterity feats in favour of some Improved Sneak Attack feats. But your build should do fine.

Oh, I would move the 2nd and 3rd Shadowdancer levels to be taken at levels 19 and 20. You will get your sneak attack dices little earlier.

[chad878262]

There was nothing wrong with your R/Cl/A build as a base, but assuming you want some kind of Fighter/Assassin instead....

I would recommend R17/NWN3/A10. Gets 16d6 sneak dice and BAB 22
or go R16/A8/NWN3/F3. BAB24 and 14d6 sneak dice. Loses 2 points of death attack DC, but gains 2 Fighter bonus feats pre-epic.

If you really want the current split of R/F/SD I would drop SD to 3, drop Fighter to 4 and raise Rogue up to 23. You can drop a couple Great DEX's and grab either improved sneak attack or self-concealment 1. SD 5 gives you free defensive roll, but you can take it at R16 or 19 and get d6 extra sneak dice. F6 is a bonus feat, but again, at the cost of d6 sneak dice. 10d6 sneak dice is kind of low for dedicated sneak attack character. R23 gets you to 12d6 and allowing dex to drop to 28 isn't a big deal as you have epic dodge. Both builds have the same BAB (23), but personally I think the R16/A8/NWN3/F3 build above is better. You lose 2 fighter bonus feats, but you also do not need Dodge or Mobility so basically you gain +1 BAB, 4d6 sneak dice, death attack, assassin spells and you lose nothing. People will tell you that ending on an odd Fighter level is a no-no and usually they'd be right, but Fighter 3 still gives 2 bonus feats while still ensuring you can get Epic Dodge and nearly full sneak dice.

[Sun Wukong]

But on the other other, the current Rogue/Fighter/Shadowdancer build has as high stealth skills as you can have without those 27 levels of Bard. (Inspire Competence for +8 to all skills.)

[Israe]

Commoner 30 has everything you're looking for.

[arctic_cold]

Thanks all for the additional sneak build suggestions and leveling tips!!

Updated build is http://nwn2db.com/build/?283823 where the blank level 18 feat is Blinding Strike. Feedback? How useful is blinding strike (and what situations are a good time to use it)?

[chad878262]

I think we have a winner (IMO). good build, just a couple things:

1. You could go with 11 STR / 13 CON since you can obtain a belt of growth (+3 STR/CON) pretty cheap... Unless you are planning to use wands of bull's STR or something...

2. I would flip SF: Move Silently with SF: Hide. Mobs tend to have spot as opposed to Listen so Hide should be prioritized.

How useful is blinding strike (and what situations are a good time to use it)?

Amazingly useful. You activate it ahead of time and it applies an on hit property to your weapon while starting a 45s cooldown. So basically whenever you hit an enemy and the cooldown timer expires you reapply it. The DC on Blinding Strike will be 10 + 14 (sneak dice) + 6 (at level 30) + 3 (1/5 rogue levels) = 33. That is pretty darn strong for an ability on a cooldown. On a failed save the enemy is blinded (and thus subject to sneak attacks) for 2-5 rounds (and thus is dead very quickly). So basically whenever the ability is not on cooldown and you don't have the onhit applied to your weapon, that is the situation where you use it.

[Sun Wukong]

That super late Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting though... Part of me would just like to get something like Rogue 17/Assassin 9/Fighter 4... But yeah, the build you have will work.

[chad878262]

That super late Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting though... Part of me would just like to get something like Rogue 17/Assassin 9/Fighter 4... But yeah, the build you have will work.

This is a good point, and honestly you could delay Epic Prowess/Expose Weakness to take PTWF sooner. Expose Weakness is great and all, but the AC malus is dodge AC...flat footed means the opponent loses their dodge AC, positive or negative (so when you are coming out of stealth it is not helping you land your sneak attacks which are the only attacks that matter). Until you get PTWF you have 8 APR and 3 sneak attacks, that extra sneak attack adds 33% to your damage per round, so far more important than EW IMO.

[arctic_cold]

Thanks all for the additional sneak build suggestions!!

Updated build (Rogue 17/Assassin 9/Fighter 4) is http://nwn2db.com/build/?283876 where blinding strike is taken as the level 3 feat.

Good to go?