Master of the Longsword v.2

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Ambaryerno
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Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Ambaryerno »

Hey all, I've been looking at returning to the game again when I can find time to log on (ugh, too few hours in the day). Meanwhile in my downtime I've been continuing my refinement of this class concept.

After a few private discussions I've reached the point where as a pure class it's been deemed to be workable and balanced. The current iteration is as follows:
Master of the Longsword

The Master of the Longsword is a professional warrior trained in the use of two-handed swords and polearms who, rather than relying on raw power, makes use of speed and finesse to harry his opponents with an accurate barrage of blows to keep them off-balance. Unlike the Weapon Master he doesn't heavily specialize in one type of weapon, but has instead studied the synergy between a wide range of equipment.

Hit Dice: D8
BAB: High

Proficiencies
Weapons: Simple, Martial
Armor: Light

Saves
High: Reflex
Low: Fort

Skill Points: 4
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Martial (New Skill, Class Skill for MotLS, and could be made one for Fighter, Weapon Master, Dwarven Defender, etc., as well), Parry, Spot, Taunt, Tumble

Note: This class does NOT qualify as Fighter levels for Feat purposes.

Master of the Longsword abilities only work when wearing light or no armor. All require him to be using a two-handed sword no larger than one size class larger than him (IE, for a human they only apply to Medium and Large weapons, and only when wielded in two hands). Optionally, this can be changed to a weapon of his size class (IE, for a human it applies to Medium weapons, thus leaving Greatsword for conventional STR builds).


Feat Progression

Level 1 Measured Blows
Level 2
Level 3 Parting Strike
Level 4
Level 5 Half-Sword, Bonus Feat*
Level 6 Disarm
Level 7 Skillful Defense
Level 8
Level 9 Weapon Synergy I
Level 10 Scholar of Arms, Bonus Feat
Level 11 Feint
Level 12 Crooked Strike
Level 13 Vor
Level 14 Wrestling at Sword
Level 15 Bonus Feat
Level 16 Coup-de-Grâce I
Level 17
Level 18 Mordhau
Level 19 Weapon Synergy II
Level 20 Provost of Arms, Bonus Feat
Level 21 Relentless Barrage
Level 22 Coup-de-Grâce II
Level 23
Level 24 Aggressive Defender
Level 25 Chink in the Armor, Bonus Feat
Level 26 Combat Insight
Level 27 Master's Defense
Level 28
Level 29 Strike of Wrath
Level 30 Master of Arms, Bonus Feat

Feat Descriptions

Measured Blows: At Level 1, he has trained to make precise attacks when wielding one of his weapons by tightening up his movements and making smaller and quicker strikes, gaining accuracy at the expense of damage. When this mode is activated, he gains +3 AB at the expense of -3 Damage.

Parting Strike: At Level 3, as a full round action the Master of the Longsword executes a quick cut to the top of his opponent's scalp to distract him by opening a wound that will bleed into his eyes. The attack is made at his full BAB, and if it connects the target must succeed at a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier or be blinded for the next round. It has a cooldown of 1 minute, and cannot be used when Half-Sword is active.

Half-Sword: (Scripted Modal) At Level 5, when fighting in Measured Blows, the MotLS can move one hand onto the blade of his sword, shortening up his reach and reducing his power, but further increasing precision. Once activated, when wielding any sword two-handed his damage is further reduced by 2, however he may ignore half his opponent’s AC (Armor) Enhancement Bonus (rounded down). If the Master comes out of Measured Blows for any reason once activated, Half-Sword is also disabled.

Bonus Feat: At Levels 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30 the Master of the Longsword may choose a Bonus Feat from the Fighter’s Bonus Feat list. (Optional. I've waffled on this one, but went ahead and listed it since other similarly feat-heavy progressions IE Man-At-Arms have them.)

Disarm: At Level 6 the Master of the Longsword receives the Disarm feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.

Skillful Defense: At Level 7, the Master of the Longsword has learned to defend himself with his weapons as if they were a shield in melee combat. He gains +1 AC (Shield) for every 10 ranks of Parry when fighting in Measured Blows. This only applies against his current target. (Optional: Taking Improved Parry increases this bonus to +2 per 10 ranks)

Weapon Synergy: At Level 9 the Master of the Longsword may wield any sword or sword-like weapon (IE bastard sword and katana) and polearm even if he lacks the proficiency feat for it, as long as he does so two-handed. At Level 19, he has undertaken sufficient study that he has mastered the similarities in how his weapons are wielded, and may apply any bonuses from Weapon Focus, Power Critical, or Improved Critical feats to all weapons in its type. Note that having feats in more than one weapon of the same type (IE if the character has Weapon Focus Longsword and Weapon Focus Greatsword) does not stack.

Scholar of Arms: The Master of the Longsword's knowledge of weapons lends him an intuitive grasp of their inherent properties, granting him bonuses in his skill at wielding his qualifying weapons. He gains an additional +1 AB for every 10 ranks of Lore (Martial).

Feint: At Level 11 the Master of the Longsword receives the Feint feat for free, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.

Crooked Strike: At Level 12 he may, as a full round action, make an attack at his opponent’s hands and wrists that reduces their AB and Damage by -2, for a number of rounds equal to 1 round per five class levels. The target must make a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier to avoid the penalty. It has a cool down of 1 minute, and cannot be used when Half-Sword is active.

Vor: At Level 13 the Master of the Longsword's unrelenting assault takes the initiative, and keeps his opponent off-balance and forces them to react to him. Once per day for every 5 class levels, as a full round action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack at his full BAB. If the attack is successful, for the next 1 round per five class levels the Master takes control of the fight, and during this time the opponent's DC for Concentration Checks on any spells and abilities used by the opponent when engaged in melee combat are increased by 1 for every 5 class levels. It has a 2-minute cool down.

Wrestling at Sword: At Level 14 the Master of the Longsword may add the difference between his DEX and STR to his Knockdown checks. If Half-Sword is active, he may add his weapon's Enhancement Bonus to his roll.

Coup-de-Grâce: At Level 16, as a standard action the Master may deliver an attack against a prone opponent at his full BAB. If the attack is successful the hit inflicts an extra 1d6 Damage. At Level 22 this is upgraded to 2d6. This attack has a 2 minute cool down. (Optional: This stacks with the Coup-de-Grâce Bonus Feat when equipping a Rondel, or when Half-Sword is active, for a maximum of 3d6 extra damage).

Mordhau: At Level 18, as a full round action, the Master of the Longsword takes his sword by the blade and swings it like a mace or hammer. If the blow connects, it deals his weapon's normal dice and enhancement bonus in bludgeoning damage (IE a longsword would deliver 1d8 + EB Bludgeoning). The target must then make a Fort save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier + his weapon size or be dazed for 1 round per 6 class levels. If the target fails this check by 10 or more, he is stunned for the same duration. Regardless of whether the attack hits or misses, the Master suffers an AB penalty of -2 for the next round. It has a cool down of 60 seconds, and cannot be used when Half-Sword is active.

Provost of Arms: At Level 20 the Master of the Longsword has achieved sufficient mastery with his weapons they have effectively become an extension of his body. Whenever wielding any qualifying sword two-handed his weapon is considered to be a finesse weapon.

Relentless Barrage: At Level 21, whenever the Master of the Longsword succeeds with his Vor attack, his opponent must make a Reflex save modified by the Vor penalty against a DC of 10 + 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier. If this roll fails, he suffers an additional penalty of -2 to AC and AB for as long as the Master is in Vor.

Aggressive Defender: At Level 24 the Master of the Longsword is constantly moving his weapon, ready to intercept any incoming blow even when he's attacking. Whenever using Measured Blows, he gains +3 AC in addition to his AB bonus against his current opponent. (Optional: The AC bonus can be made a non-stacking Deflection AC bonus for balance if necessary)

Chink in the Armor: At Level 25 the Master of the Longsword has learned to spot and target the weaknesses in his opponent's armor. As a full round action he makes a spot check against a DC of (10 + Armor AC + Armor Enhancement) x 2. If successful, for the next 1 round per 5 class levels he may now ignore his opponent’s entire AC (Armor) Enhancement Bonus when Half-Sword is active.

Combat Insight: At Level 26, the Master of the Longsword receives the Combat Insight Feat, even if he doesn't meet the requirements.

Master's Defense: At Level 27, the Master of the Longsword may add 1/2 his weapon's Enhancement Bonus as AC (Shield) against his current target. This bonus stacks with his bonus for Skillful Defense.

Strike of Wrath: At Level 29, as a Full Round Action the Master of the Longsword may execute an attack at his full Base Attack Bonus. If it hits, the attack will inflict maximum damage upon the target, and knock them out of any active Mode (IE Parry, Combat Expertise, etc.). This action has a 2-minute cooldown, and cannot be used when Half-Sword is active.

Master of Arms: The Master of the Longsword has fully mastered his weapons, to the point that his attacks come so quickly and furiously he may press his opponents beyond their ability to keep up. As a result, each round the Master lands a successful attack while Vor is active, the AC and AB penalties suffered by his opponent increase by 2.

Additional Feats

The following feats are some ideas for additional abilities available for selection at level-up:

Expanded Synergy (Requires Weapon Synergy II, 19 INT): The Master of the Longsword may now use his abilities with Polearms. If he has Weapon Synergy II, he must still take Weapon Focus, etc. in a Polearm to apply those bonuses. (Note: If the option above to limit it to weapons equal to race size is utilized, Polearms would be considered to match the wielder's size class)

Break Fall (Require DEX 21): If knocked down, the Master of the Longsword can make a second check by adding the difference between his DEX and STR modifiers. If the roll succeeds, he escapes the knockdown.

Multifighting (Require DEX 25, INT 19, Aggressive Defender): The Master of the Longsword has carefully studied footwork and angles to better defend himself against multiple opponents. He may now apply his AC bonuses to all melee attacks, not just his current target.

Deft Hands (Require Feint, DEX 21): Whenever the Master of the Longsword uses Feint against his opponent, he may add the difference between his DEX and CHA bonus to his Bluff roll. (Note: This feat could be made available to all classes)

A note on the below: Because harnischfechten (armored fighting) is a central part of the martial arts from which this class draws influence, I'm trying to find SOME way to work it in.

Harness Fighting (Requires Class Level 20): Any armor worn by the character is considered one class lighter. Therefore Medium Armor is now considered Light Armor, etc. (Optional: This stacks with the bonus for Mithral armor)

Additional Equipment

Some ideas for new equipment:

Rondel

Type: Martial Weight: 1.0 pound(s)
Damage Type: Piercing
Size: Tiny
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 1d4
Bonus Feat: Coup-De-Grâce
Feats: Martial

The rondel is a specialized form of dagger with a long, slender, needle-like point designed specifically for penetrating between the joints of plate armor. Its main purpose is to deliver a coup-de-grâce to fallen opponents or to serve as a knight's last line of personal defense, however it has also become popular among merchants and tradesmen.

Polehammer

Type: Martial Weight: 8.0 pound(s)
Damage Type: Bludgeoning and Piercing
Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 2d6
Feats: Martial

As armor grew heavier, weapons evolved to better contend with it, leading the conventional warhammer to develop into the polehammer. The polehammer consists of a hammer head at the end of a 6-8ft shaft, and is a favored weapon of heavily-armored knights. In addition to the hammer head, polehammers generally featured a reverse spike for punching holes through armor or for hooking knights off their horse, and a spike at the end for thrusting like a spear.

Estoc

Type: Martial Weight: 4 pounds
Damage Type: Piercing
Size: Medium
Critical: 18-20/x2 Damage: 1d8

A particular form of longsword featuring a narrow, pyramidal blade for thrusting. Unlike the conventional longsword it has no cutting ability, and was designed for piercing the joints in plate armor.

Zweihander

Type: Martial Weight: 10.0 pound(s)
Damage Type: Slashing and Piercing
Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 3d4
Feats: Martial

The largest and most impressive of swords, these massive blades range as much as 6ft in total length. Because of their size such swords have much more in common with polearms, and are often favored by wealthy mercenaries for contending with pike formations. (Note: mechanically a Zweihander would be considered a polearm)
So, that's the pure class build, along with a couple other additional odds and ends. Now here's where I need y'all's help:

I need you to BREAK it for me. Take what I've got here, and come up with the most obscenely powerful multiclass build that would be a perfectly legal combination on this server you can think of. You can splash as much of the class as you want, so long as it follows the server's multiclassing rules.

I've done the best I can to balance the class in such a way as to mitigate powerbuilding, particularly by moving its key feat (finesse on 2H weapons) to very late in the progression. However I've never had an eye for Min-Maxing RPG systems, so it's possible I've missed something that more...creative builders might be able to exploit.

So if you would, have at it and see what insanity you guys can come up with. Assume that the class AS WRITTEN is what would be going into the server (you may flex on the Optional rules I noted above).
Julia "la Belle" - Duelist, singer, and shameless flirt. Currently deciding whether she wants to fight you or @$%& you.
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Sun Wukong
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Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

I think I still have the same complain as before:

Why not just roll a Fighter, or maybe a Fighter/Rogue, and spend those feats on the many custom combat styles of this server?
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.
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Ambaryerno
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:32 am

Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Ambaryerno »

Sun Wukong wrote:I think I still have the same complain as before:

Why not just roll a Fighter, or maybe a Fighter/Rogue, and spend those feats on the many custom combat styles of this server?
Because they don't adequately do what I'm LOOKING to do. Certainly not in its entirety.
Julia "la Belle" - Duelist, singer, and shameless flirt. Currently deciding whether she wants to fight you or @$%& you.
Julia's Songbook

Lucia Kayla - If her parents find out she left the Island she'll likely be grounded until she's 500.
Khazrak
Posts: 263
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:58 pm

Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Khazrak »

Okay. I know you're trying to draw from medieval martial styles and be as true to them as you can, but realize that D&D is a simulation, and regrettably has very little basis in actual historical sword-fighting techniques.

If you're going to build a class in D&D, you need to think of what you want to do, yes, but also how to make it balanced mechanically. Now, I've gone through and dissected the class ability-by-ability, and I've talked about the weapons as well. I have NOT done so politely, so be advised that I let off some steam while I wrote.

With all that said, I definitely get why you're doing this. I dig tabletop systems that really focus on realism without bogging the game down. I don't think adventurers should carry as much crap as they do; I don't think Hammerspace is a good solution for where your two-handed monster sword goes when you're not using it (because it shouldn't be sheathed, that's for sure - it's too big!); I don't like seeing torches used in dungeons because why the Hell aren't you using a lamp; I hate that warhammers are more like tiny mauls than real life warhammers; I hate the limited selection of weapons in NWN2; I hate that real-life combat moves like the murder stroke and half-swording can only be displayed via RP; and you get the idea, I love realism.

But this is D&D. D&D was not designed with that in mind. D&D was designed around a completely fantastical view of how combat is conducted, and the ruleset thus doesn't work well with the medieval techniques you're trying to include. Ergo, if you want to use those techniques, you're going to have to make concessions.

Finally, I don't think you really understand class balance in D&D or NWN2. I've torn apart your class, as you'll see below, and I hope you understand that I do so in the hopes that you'll create something better in the next iteration. As it stands, in some ways the class is too good at <X>, and in some ways it just sucks, makes no sense, or misses its own point completely.

General complaints: way too much focus on AC means you want to ignore this character and just kill everyone else first, or better yet target his weak Will Save (yes, that should be listed beside "Fortitude" in your saves) and THEN go for his buddies. Has the ability to ignore armor bonuses and the like, but honestly I don't like this very much; read the spoiler for more info on that. Has too many full round actions. Has too many "use the difference between X and Y stat" abilities. Has abilities that suggest the character should be using a variety of weapons, then others that force the character into one weapon type (sw0rdz). Finally, has (IMO) too many class abilities when combined with the number of bonus feats, at least for a 3.5 class. Might fit well in Pathfinder, but NWN2 is 3.5.

Open the spoiler below whenever you're ready.
Hidden: show
WEAPONS

While I am always a fan of new weapons, these require new models. They'd also have to be added to the loot generator and have additional, high value versions put into stores, and +1 / +2 versions into other stores.

Rondel: see my later critique on Coup de Grace.

Polehammer: honestly, this one seems fine to me. I would love to have a lucerne hammer.

Estoc: I assume it's martial. Big issue, though? This is a straight up upgrade from the scimitar, falchion, and rapier. Either make it 2H (see: Large, not medium) or make it Exotic.

Zweihander: Why the Hell is this Martial? Two damage types, 3d4 damage (better than 2d6), equivalent crit value to greatsword/greataxe? Straight upgrade from a greataxe, if a minor one. Exotic.

Also, AFAIK, there is no mechanical difference in NWN2 between polearms and any other weapon except so far as weapon focus feats and such go. Things are split up into: melee, ranged, thrown; tiny, small, medium, large; light, one-handed, two-handed; damage dice; slashing, piercing, bludgeoning, or any combination of these. A class may demand that you specialize in one particular weapon type, or it may demand that you use a category of weapons (which is actually just multiple weapons selected for your choice, such as "bows" being longbow and shortbow for Order of the Bow). However, besides this? No difference.

Yes, I know your class is trying to categorize weapons into swords and polearms for the use of certain feats and class features. But I want you to consider the above as you do so.

Furthermore, some of the weapons you've listed are already in D&D 3.5 or Pathfinder. For instance, the Zweihander is basically the Fullblade. See: really damned big sword. 3.5 already has stats for polearms such as the guisarme and glaive. Pathfinder has the Estoc (Ctrl-F to find it) as a 2d4 piercing 18-20 one-handed exotic weapon for a reason. Ctrl-F to find Lucerne and see how you could make a martial polehammer. Rondel dagger? Honestly, just use a dagger.

Point being: these weapon types have already been covered mechanically by 3.5 and Pathfinder, in more balanced forms. And there's plenty of core rulebook weapons the devs might consider putting into the game first. (Personally, I want to see more cool polearms - and shortspears. Can we have shortspears, please? They're even mentioned in-game at one point! Javelins would be dope.) Creating new weapons takes time and resources that may not be available right now as well.

THE CLASS

Seeing several glaring issues.

1. Coup de Grace is basically a crappier version of sneak attack. Why is it a standard action? Why not just have it such that you get +1d6 damage vs. prone enemies (and +1d6 for every X levels)?

2. Half-Sword: Yeah, this is cool and realistic. I study sword-fighting techniques from the medieval era. But a few thoughts: either you're ignoring 1/2 the armor's magical enhancement bonus (which doesn't make sense to me because half-swording wasn't designed to ignore magical defenses, but real physical armor) for -2 damage, or you're ignoring their full armor bonus (as much as 4 AC) for -2 damage, or you're ignoring their full armor + enhancement bonus to AC (as much as 6 armor) for -2 damage. And you get this... as early as level 5?

Yeah, that's a bit much. I understand you activate this while Measured Blows is up, so that's -5 damage for up to +a lot of attack / -AC for the enemy. But still, this seems either to not make sense (if it's only countering magical enhancement bonus) or to be too effective at what it does.

I assume you can't power attack and measured blows things at once, so that's good at least.

Weapon Synergy: I don't think this can easily be coded to work. In NWN2, either you're proficient with something or you're not. It's a VERY cool idea, and it's definitely the kind of thing I'd like to have (use any weapon type I find? Carry a small armory? Cool!), but it's probably not easily coded.

Scholar of Arms: There is no Lore (Martial). There is Lore (History), and Profession (Soldier) in D&D; since Profession isn't a skill in-game, use Lore (History) instead; History covers "royalty, wars, colonies, migrations, founding of cities." We can assume military tactics, warfare, and etcetera are covered by Knowledge (History).

However, note that 4 skill point per level class that you're effectively forcing to take 1 lore and Parry for class skills by the nature of the class. That leaves only 2 skill points left to play around with. Furthermore, why does this class need +3 more attack if it's already got +3 attack from, you know, Measured Blows? Measured Blows which adds +attack AND +AC if you've got Parry points? And reduces your damage when you're already supposed to be one-handing a weapon with a shield, as if your damage needed to be worse?

Why not make Scholar of Arms add +1 damage per 10 points of Knowledge (History), if anything? Better yet, why not just make it add +1 damage every <X> levels without requiring skill point investment? 7, perhaps? (That's +4 damage by level 28.)

Crooked Strike: Spend a full round action to maybe reduce your opponents' attack/damage by 2? When your AC is already higher than others' because you're using a shield and get bonus AC from Measured Blows?

I'm starting to see a theme in this class: sacrifice your ability to actually kill anything in return for better defenses. I think it's too extreme. If taken too far, you end up either as the guy everyone ignores and saves for last in a party or the guy that goes soloing and takes a full minute longer than someone else to kill one monster.

Keep the 1 minute cooldown or make it 30 seconds. Make it a Standard Action that applies a 1 round debuff to an enemy's attack/damage. Reflex save or they take penalty. Simple.

Vor: I actually have no complaints with this one. I assume it's doable. Not sure it should be a full-round action for what it does. A high damage dealing fighter type could just hit a caster hard enough to make them flub their concentration checks after all.

Wrestling at Sword: I actually REALLY dislike this one. It rewards players who have super low DEX and super high STR. I.E., why don't I make a Half-Orc with 8 DEX and 19 STR at level 1? Then I'll just get an even bigger bonus to knockdown! This makes very little sense to me. Why not just add Enhancement Bonus to your KD checks and that's it? No additional conditions.

Mordhau: Ah, yes, the murderstroke. I like it, but it's not supported by D&D precedence at any point, and it just makes the sword even more typical than it already is. Erase this; this class should be encouraged to make use of its Weapon Synergy ability, or to just carry around a goddamned warhammer or flail.

Provost of Arms: Umm... Is this just so you can use Deadly Defense? Is it to create a DEX-based sword user? If you're using these weapons as finesse weapons, you're still basing your damage off of STR, so you've got a crappy build. And to top it off, you don't get the ability to wield your weapons with DEX until level 20?

Provost of Arms makes no sense mechanically. Delete.

Relentless Barrage: Yeah, alright then.

Aggressive Defender: Wait. You want even more AC out of Measured Blows? Why? Stop that. Stop that right now.

Chink in the Armor: Yet another full round action, yet more accuracy with minimal damage. Why?

Combat Insight: Ahhh, so you want people to be able to go DEX/INT with polearms and longswords. Alright, interesting - but to get Combat Insight this way AND have Swashbuckler INT-to-damage, you need to be level 30. Exactly level 30. And you're still splitting attack and damage into different stats. It's not a good idea. Moreover, it's just too freaking late in the game to matter unless the player involved is willing to deal with 29 levels of being this annoying little high AC target that annoys martials but still fails every will save so casters win anyway.

Strike of Wrath: Too many full round action clickies. I mean it. STOP THAT. Also, it's just not a very interesting idea. It's A) probably difficult to code knocking someone out of a mode, B) easy to just click a mode again, C) there's already a maximum damage mode in the game. It's called Northlander Hewing. It's nifty.

Master of Arms: No. Just... No.

BONUS FEATS

Harness Fighting - No. I don't want to hear about some nerd treating Mithal Full Plate as light armor for whatever gimmicky mechanical reason.

Deft Hands - What? Why the difference between DEX and CHA? Why not just "use DEX instead of CHA"? That's worded better.

Multifighting: Wait. So to top it all off, the AC bonuses from earlier only apply to one opponent? And you sacrifice a bunch of damage to do it, but you're supposed to be a high AC opponent that is very accurate. What?

Break Fall: Stop this difference stuff! Just just he gets two rolls vs. knockdowns. For fudge's--

Expanded Synergy: Why not just let them use these abilities with polearms in the first place?
Khazrak
Posts: 263
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:58 pm

Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Khazrak »

One more thought before I forget:

Since this character has both weak Will and Fortitude saves, he's in a terrible boat. Phantasmal Killer could murder him. Weird could murder him. Enervation, Cloud Kill, you name it - the really awful spells still all will kill him. He dead.

I'd either make him High Fort instead of High Reflex or just accept that this character is gonna get melted by wizards unless he starts combat directly in their face.

Most martials have high Fort and thus just need to shore up their Will Save somehow. Reflex often just leads to direct damage. But Fort and Will save failures can freaking KILL YOU OUTRIGHT, or poison your stats down, or leave you crippled, or lose you levels, or etcetera. Some of them also deal mean damage. Reflex... You typically take damage or get entangled, I guess.
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Ambaryerno
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:32 am

Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Ambaryerno »

Breaking it down:
2. Half-Sword: Yeah, this is cool and realistic. I study sword-fighting techniques from the medieval era. But a few thoughts: either you're ignoring 1/2 the armor's magical enhancement bonus (which doesn't make sense to me because half-swording wasn't designed to ignore magical defenses, but real physical armor) for -2 damage, or you're ignoring their full armor bonus (as much as 4 AC) for -2 damage, or you're ignoring their full armor + enhancement bonus to AC (as much as 6 armor) for -2 damage. And you get this... as early as level 5?

Yeah, that's a bit much. I understand you activate this while Measured Blows is up, so that's -5 damage for up to +a lot of attack / -AC for the enemy. But still, this seems either to not make sense (if it's only countering magical enhancement bonus) or to be too effective at what it does.
The original intent was to have Half-Sword give a bonus to the Crit Threat range, but I was informed this was impossible. This was the next thought I had for how it could work thematically.
I assume you can't power attack and measured blows things at once, so that's good at least.
Nor can you use it at the same time as CE, Parry, etc.
Scholar of Arms: There is no Lore (Martial). There is Lore (History), and Profession (Soldier) in D&D; since Profession isn't a skill in-game, use Lore (History) instead; History covers "royalty, wars, colonies, migrations, founding of cities." We can assume military tactics, warfare, and etcetera are covered by Knowledge (History).

However, note that 4 skill point per level class that you're effectively forcing to take 1 lore and Parry for class skills by the nature of the class. That leaves only 2 skill points left to play around with. Furthermore, why does this class need +3 more attack if it's already got +3 attack from, you know, Measured Blows? Measured Blows which adds +attack AND +AC if you've got Parry points? And reduces your damage when you're already supposed to be one-handing a weapon with a shield, as if your damage needed to be worse?

Why not make Scholar of Arms add +1 damage per 10 points of Knowledge (History), if anything? Better yet, why not just make it add +1 damage every <X> levels without requiring skill point investment? 7, perhaps? (That's +4 damage by level 28.)
Lore (Martial) would be a new skill entirely, as a class skill for MotLS, Fighter, and a few other martial types. Because being versed in HISTORY doesn't mean you know WEAPONS AND ARMOR.

And MotLS abilities don't work if you have a shield.
Crooked Strike: Spend a full round action to maybe reduce your opponents' attack/damage by 2? When your AC is already higher than others' because you're using a shield and get bonus AC from Measured Blows?
Ditto the above.
Vor: I actually have no complaints with this one. I assume it's doable. Not sure it should be a full-round action for what it does. A high damage dealing fighter type could just hit a caster hard enough to make them flub their concentration checks after all.
Vor becomes modified by other abilities later in the progression.
Wrestling at Sword: I actually REALLY dislike this one. It rewards players who have super low DEX and super high STR. I.E., why don't I make a Half-Orc with 8 DEX and 19 STR at level 1? Then I'll just get an even bigger bonus to knockdown! This makes very little sense to me. Why not just add Enhancement Bonus to your KD checks and that's it? No additional conditions.
I WANTED to have it use DEX in place of STR for KD checks, (Lore: using positioning, body mechanics, etc. to throw a guy around rather than brute strength) but was informed this was impossible. I was advised to write it this way instead. However I'll make it clearer that DEX must be higher than STR.
Provost of Arms: Umm... Is this just so you can use Deadly Defense? Is it to create a DEX-based sword user? If you're using these weapons as finesse weapons, you're still basing your damage off of STR, so you've got a crappy build. And to top it off, you don't get the ability to wield your weapons with DEX until level 20?
I pushed it back to Level 20 to mitigate splashing the class for finessable 2Hers. As it's one of the key features I wanted it to be one that required actually investing in the class. I can move the Dex 2Her lower (Level 15?) but I'll need to come up with something else for Provost (10, 20, and 30 WILL have an X of Arms, that's not open for debate).
Chink in the Armor: Yet another full round action, yet more accuracy with minimal damage. Why?
This is another one that would have boosted Crit Threat as an upgrade to Half-Sword. Since it was impossible, I rewrote it to maintain the synergy with Half-Sword.
Aggressive Defender: Wait. You want even more AC out of Measured Blows? Why? Stop that. Stop that right now.
Ideally I wanted to have Parry as an "always on" mode (basically to represent Liechtenauer's promotion of attacking in such a way that you're always covered). But A) the ability to Parry AND still get your normal attacks would almost certainly be vetoed. B) That may not even be possible to script.
but to get Combat Insight this way AND have Swashbuckler INT-to-damage, you need to be level 30. Exactly level 30.
Huh, imagine that. It's almost like I was trying to minimize splashing for key feats.
Strike of Wrath: Too many full round action clickies. I mean it. STOP THAT. Also, it's just not a very interesting idea. It's A) probably difficult to code knocking someone out of a mode, B) easy to just click a mode again, C) there's already a maximum damage mode in the game. It's called Northlander Hewing. It's nifty.
Best implementation of the Zornhau I could think of (I wanted to work in Zwerchau and Schielhau, too, but couldn't think of anything mechanically appropriate for them). You got a better one I'm listening.
Harness Fighting - No. I don't want to hear about some nerd treating Mithal Full Plate as light armor for whatever gimmicky mechanical reason.
You got a better way to work this in? Originally it was supposed to allow use of the class abilities in armor heavier than Light but that got shot down.
Deft Hands - What? Why the difference between DEX and CHA? Why not just "use DEX instead of CHA"? That's worded better.
It was supposed to, but once again it was deemed impossible to just change the ability.
Multifighting: Wait. So to top it all off, the AC bonuses from earlier only apply to one opponent? And you sacrifice a bunch of damage to do it, but you're supposed to be a high AC opponent that is very accurate. What?
This was an attempt to differentiate it more from a plain ol' tank fighter (and frankly, I think more AC bonuses should be target-specific. IE shields; because the major facet of fighting on a shield wall is you're not attacking the guy in front of you, but the guy to either side because he's distracted by someone else and not defending against you. In other words, shields only help if you MOVE THE DAMN THING. But DnD is too attached to its cumulative passive defense system rather than going to active counter-rolls).
Break Fall: Stop this difference stuff! Just just he gets two rolls vs. knockdowns. For fudge's--
See: Wrestling At Sword, Deft Hands.
Expanded Synergy: Why not just let them use these abilities with polearms in the first place?
Another one that changed. Originally, by default MotLS abilities worked with both 2H Swords and Polearms for which the character had Proficiency. Synergy allowed non-Proficiency weapons (Bastard Sword, etc) to be used as if the character had that Proficiency. Synergy II allowed Focus/etc. for weapons of a type (IE, Weapon Focus: Longsword would apply to all swords wielded 2H). Expanded Synergy would allow Focus/etc. feats to apply to ALL qualifying weapons (all 2H Swords and Polearms).

I decided that thematically, calling the class Master of the Longsword and letting the abilities apply to pole weapons would go over too many peoples' heads (because they're so ingrained on the idea DnD has helped to establish that Medieval fighters were heavily specialized) and this was a workable compromise.

I WANTED it to encourage players to carry multiple weapons. The problem is, DnD mechanics (specifically, its treatment of armor as all-or-nothing defense. Which takes away the reason you'd use a polehammer vs. a sword against a walking tank — the hammer you can bash him through the armor, but the sword you have to get in close and stick it somewhere the armor ain't — in the FIRST place). Also, NWN2 doesn't handle weapon reach. So there's no penalties for using a larger weapon when an opponent is too close because you're all tied up, (which also affects Half-Swording) and shorter weapons can't not hit longer weapons because the shorty is too far away. The only real mechanical reason I can think of (so ruling out RP; I've often RPed characters that carried multiple hidden weapons so they always have something on hand if forced to disarm) that would warrant carrying multiple melee weapon types is DR bypass. And my experience on the server in the past is that damage type DR is neither common nor significant enough to really warrant it.

As for the remarks I didn't respond to:

Some of the feedback I may consider. Some of it I won't.
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Khazrak
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Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Khazrak »

The original intent was to have Half-Sword give a bonus to the Crit Threat range, but I was informed this was impossible. This was the next thought I had for how it could work thematically.
You've still got the problem of 'lots of AB, perhaps to the point of always hitting.' Trouble is, you do less damage, your AB is very high, and your AC is high, but only against one opponent. It feels like the class is just in a very awkward spot because of that.

Remember to make sure your idea works with the present game mechanics. If you break too many norms with the class, it could end up being too weak or too strong with very little means of fixing it without removing class mechanics.
Lore (Martial) would be a new skill entirely, as a class skill for MotLS, Fighter, and a few other martial types. Because being versed in HISTORY doesn't mean you know WEAPONS AND ARMOR.
So? The Knowledges in-game represent D&D knowledges as per the Player's Handbook. If a topic doesn't fall under one of them, then it's either a simple general knowledge check, common knowledge, or gets thrown into one of the existing categories.

Ergo, weapons and armor would probably, by and large, fall under History. Yes. Weapons are used in war, and thus would probably be ruled as a subset of war. If not, then it's a mixture of that and knowledge (Local) to know the weapons of different cultures.

And again, why demand that the player pay a skill point cost to use the ability? Just give them the bonuses without spending skill points. After all, being versed in weapons and armor typically means... being proficient in them.
However I'll make it clearer that DEX must be higher than STR.
That'll do just fine.
Best implementation of the Zornhau I could think of (I wanted to work in Zwerchau and Schielhau, too, but couldn't think of anything mechanically appropriate for them). You got a better one I'm listening.
Sure, I gave it to you. Just spend one of your freakin' bonus feats on Northland Hewing. There - you've got a strike of wrath. Go get 'em, tiger.

In fact, as Sun Wukong said earlier, you could spend bonus feats on other nifty custom combat modes that exist in the game already.

----

On making the class anti-dipping: so, to make it so anti-dipping you've punished the user of the class, essentially. You're expecting them to want to play a DEX setup, it seems, with finesse two-handed equipment. But their damage will still be low, akin to how the Hinzerker of yesteryears was fun to play but had to split stats between DEX and INT. The class will have the same problems as Swashbuckler setups do now, and will have to wait 'til level 30 to get Combat Insight... when it could just spend a feat on it already. You haven't set this up very well.

To top it off, you want this high DEX low STR class to wear heavier armor than usual. Yet that heavy armor will just weigh them down more, encumber them frequently, and be inconvenient to use while adventuring.

Here's my overall take: as a class, this is a bad idea. Instead, why not just create these as custom feats? Suggest those feats to the development team. Then people could take these feats as they like, showing varying levels of dedication to the different sword styles you're trying to represent here.

Imagine, for instance, being able to play a halfling rogue with improved knockdown, sneak attack, and Agile Maneuvers to give DEX in place of STR when attempting Knockdown. That's cool!

Or you're playing a Fighter, and you spend some of your bonus feats on the abilities from this class that you like. Some defensive combat, DEX-based combat... oh, Combat Insight when you hit epic levels. There ya go: finesse-fighting 2H fighter with Combat Insight and some cool clickies.

As a class, though, this seems borked. Realize that D&D is a simulation, and not designed with realistic combat in mind. My paladin with 8 DEX and 20 STR is just as good at hitting people with swords as a paladin with 14 DEX and 20 STR, and even though that would make no sense IRL, that's how D&D operates.

Remember: work within the mechanics. Present something that suits them. And really, really consider that this may not be a good class, but would make a decent set of feats.
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Ambaryerno
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Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Ambaryerno »

I'd be perfectly content with a feat allowing Finesse on 2Hers. However after a number of discussions a class appears to be the most likely way it will happen.
Last edited by Ambaryerno on Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Khazrak »

I'd just make a 5-10 level PRC based around finesse 2H, then - that way more people can take it. Use some of the class abilities you made as custom feats available to everyone. Not everything needs to fit into one class.
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Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Ambaryerno »

Also, you mentioned polehammer models...

Image

Polehammer

Image

Lucerne Hammer

Image

Mattock

Image

Bec-de-Corbin

Image

And a Zweihander for good measure.
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Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Ambaryerno »

Quick and Dirty mockup of a PrC:
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Master of the Longsword

The Master of the Longsword is a professional warrior trained in the use of two-handed swords and polearms who, rather than relying on raw power, makes use of speed and finesse to harry his opponents with an accurate barrage of blows to keep them off-balance. Unlike the Weapon Master he doesn't heavily specialize in one type of weapon, but has instead studied the synergy between a range of equipment, enabling him to wield them all equally well.

Requirements

BAB: +7
Abilities: DEX 15
Feats: Measured Blows, Wrestling at Sword, Weapon Focus in a Qualifying Weapon, 4 Ranks Tumble

Hit Dice: D8
BAB: High

Saves
High: Reflex, Will
Low: Fort

Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Parry, Taunt, Tumble

Note: This class does NOT qualify as Fighter levels for Feat purposes.

All Master of the Longsword abilities require him to be using a Qualifying Weapon, and for his off-hand to be empty.

Qualifying Weapons: Bastard Sword, Estoc, Falchion, Greatsword, Halberd, Katana, Longsword, Polehammer, Quarterstaff, Scimitar, Spear, Zweihander


Feat Progression

Level 1 Weapon Synergy I
Level 2 Crooked Strike
Level 3 Parting Strike
Level 4 Vor
Level 5 Coup-de-Grâce
Level 6 Weapon Synergy II
Level 7 Relentless Barrage
Level 8 Strike of Wrath
Level 9 Master’s Defense
Level 10 Master of Arms

New Feat Descriptions

Break Fall
Requirement: DEX 21, Wrestling at Sword
If knocked down, the character can make a second check to escape the knockdown.

Coup-de-Grâce
The Master of the Longsword inflicts an extra 1d6 Damage against Prone opponents. At Level 10 this increases to 2d6. (Optional: This stacks with the Coup-de-Grâce Bonus Feat when equipping a Rondel, for a maximum of 3d6 extra damage)

Crooked Strike
As a standard action the character makes an attack at his opponent’s hands and wrists that reduces their AB and Damage by -2, for a number of rounds equal to 1 round per five class levels. The target must make a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier to avoid the penalty. It has a cool down of 1 minute.

Deft Hands
Requirements: Feint, DEX 21
Whenever the character uses Feint against his opponent, if his DEX modifier is higher than his CHA, he may add the difference to his Bluff roll.

Expanded Synergy
Requirements Weapon Synergy II, 19 INT, Character Level 21: The Master of the Longsword may now apply bonuses from Weapon Focus, etc., to all his Qualifying Weapons.

Master of Arms

The Master of the Longsword has fully mastered his weapons. Whenever wielding a Qualifying Weapon he may now treat it as a Finesse Weapon.

Master's Defense
The Master of the Longsword may add his weapon's Enhancement Bonus as AC (Shield) against melee attacks.

Measured Blows
Requirement: Weapon Finesse
The character has trained to make precise attacks when wielding one of his weapons by tightening up his movements and making smaller and quicker strikes, gaining accuracy at the expense of damage. When this mode is activated, he gains +3 AB at the expense of -3 Damage.

Parting Strike
As a standard action the Master of the Longsword executes a quick cut to the top of his opponent's scalp to distract him by opening a wound that will bleed into his eyes. The attack is made at his full BAB, and if it connects the target must succeed at a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier or be blinded for the next round. It has a cooldown of 1 minute.

Relentless Barrage
Whenever the Master of the Longsword succeeds with his Vor attack, his opponent must make a Reflex save modified by the Vor penalty against a DC of 10 + the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier. If this roll fails, the target suffers an additional penalty of -2 to AC and AB for as long as the Master is in Vor.

Strike of Wrath
As a Full Round Action the Master of the Longsword may execute an attack at his full Base Attack Bonus. If it hits, the defender must succeed a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + the Master’s class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier, or sustain -2 CON damage for one round per three class levels. It has a cooldown of 2 minutes.

Vor
The Master of the Longsword's unrelenting assault takes the initiative, and keeps his opponent off-balance and forces them to react to him. As a standard action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack at his full BAB. If the attack is successful, for the next round per two class levels the Master takes control of the fight, and during this time the opponent's DC for Concentration Checks on any spells and abilities used by the opponent when engaged in melee combat are increased by 1 for every 2 class levels. It has a 2-minute cool down.

Weapon Synergy: The Master of the Longsword may wield any of his Qualifying Weapons even if he lacks the proficiency feat for it, as long as he carries nothing in his off-hand.

At Level 6 he has undertaken sufficient study that he has mastered the similarities in how his weapons are wielded, and may apply any bonuses from Weapon Focus, etc. feats to all weapons in its type by selecting one of two feats:

Weapon Synergy (Swords): Bastard Sword, Estoc, Falchion, Greatsword, Katana, Longsword, Scimitar

Weapon Synergy (Polearms): Halberd, Polehammer, Quarterstaff, Spear, Zweihander

Wrestling at Sword
Requirement: DEX 13, Knockdown
If the character’s DEX modifier is higher than his STR, the character may add the difference to his Knockdown checks. If Half-Sword is active, he may add his weapon's Enhancement Bonus to his roll.

New Equipment

Rondel

Type: Martial Weight: 1.0 pound(s)
Damage Type: Piercing
Size: Tiny
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 1d4
Bonus Feat: Coup-De-Grâce
Feats: Martial

The rondel is a specialized form of dagger with a long, slender, needle-like point designed specifically for penetrating between the joints of plate armor. Its main purpose is to deliver a coup-de-grâce to fallen opponents or to serve as a knight's last line of personal defense, however it has also become popular among merchants and tradesmen.

Polehammer

Type: Martial Weight: 8.0 pound(s)
Damage Type: Bludgeoning and Piercing
Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 2d6
Feats: Martial

As armor grew heavier, weapons evolved to better contend with it, leading the conventional warhammer to develop into the polehammer. The polehammer consists of a hammer head at the end of a 6-8ft shaft, and is a favored weapon of heavily-armored knights. In addition to the hammer head, polehammers generally featured a reverse spike for punching holes through armor or for hooking knights off their horse, and a spike at the end for thrusting like a spear.

Estoc

Type: Exotic Weight: 4 pounds
Damage Type: Piercing
Size: Medium
Critical: 18-20/x2 Damage: 1d8
Feats: Exotic

A particular form of longsword featuring a narrow, pyramidal blade for thrusting. Unlike the conventional longsword it has no cutting ability, and was designed for piercing the joints in plate armor.

Zweihander

Type: Martial Weight: 10.0 pound(s)
Damage Type: Slashing and Piercing
Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 3d4
Feats: Exotic

The largest and most impressive of swords, these massive blades range as much as 6ft in total length. Because of their size these swords have much more in common with polearms, and are often favored by wealthy mercenaries for contending with pike formations (note: mechanically a Zweihander would be considered a polearm).
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Ambaryerno
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Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Ambaryerno »

Further tweaks, presented as two versions.

First, as a base class:
Hidden: show
Master of the Longsword

The Master of the Longsword is a professional warrior trained in the use of two-handed swords and polearms who, rather than relying on raw power, makes use of speed and finesse to harry his opponents with an accurate barrage of blows to keep them off-balance. Unlike the Weapon Master he doesn't heavily specialize in one type of weapon, but has instead studied the synergy between a wide range of equipment.

Hit Dice: D8
BAB: High

Proficiencies
Weapons: Simple, Master of the Longsword
Armor: Light

Saves
High: Reflex, Will
Low: Fort

Skill Points: 4
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Lore: Martial (New Skill, Class Skill for MotLS, and could be made one for Fighter, Weapon Master, Dwarven Defender, etc., as well), Parry, Spot, Taunt, Tumble

Note: This class does NOT qualify as Fighter levels for Feat purposes.

All Master of the Longsword abilities require him to be using a Qualifying Weapon and for his off-hand to be empty.

Qualifying Weapons: Bastard Sword, Estoc, Falchion, Greatsword, Halberd, Katana, Longsword, Polehammer, Quarterstaff, Scimitar, Spear, Zweihander


Feat Progression

Level 1 Measured Blows
Level 2 Crooked Strike
Level 3 Parting Strike
Level 4
Level 5 Bonus Feat
Level 6 Coup-de-Grâce 1d6
Level 7 Skillful Defense
Level 8
Level 9 Weapon Synergy
Level 10 Scholar of Arms, Bonus Feat
Level 11 Coup-de-Grâce 2d6
Level 12
Level 13 Vor
Level 14 Wrestling at Sword
Level 15 Leveraged Grip, Bonus Feat
Level 16 Coup-de-Grâce 3d6
Level 17 Half-Sword
Level 18
Level 19
Level 20 Provost of Arms, Bonus Feat
Level 21 Coup-de-Grâce 4d6
Level 22
Level 23 Aggressive Defender
Level 24
Level 25 Bonus Feat
Level 26 Coup-de-Grâce 5d6
Level 27 Master's Defense
Level 28
Level 29 Strike of Wrath
Level 30 Master of Arms, Bonus Feat

New Feat Descriptions

Aggressive Defender
The Master of the Longsword is constantly moving his weapon, ready to intercept any incoming blow even when he's attacking. Whenever using Measured Blows, he gains +3 AC (Deflection) in addition to his AB bonus against melee attacks. This does not stack with any other source of AC (Deflection).

Bonus Feat
At Levels 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30 the Master of the Longsword may choose a Bonus Feat from the Fighter’s Bonus Feat list.

Break Fall (General)
Requirement: DEX 21, Wrestling at Sword
If knocked down, the character can make a second check to escape the knockdown.

Coup-de-Grâce (Class)
The Master of the Longsword inflicts an extra 1d6 Damage against Prone opponents. This increases by an additional 1d6 at levels 11, 16, 21, and 26. (Optional: This stacks with the Coup-de-Grâce Bonus Feat when equipping a Rondel, for a maximum of 6d6 extra damage)
Crooked Strike (Class)
As a standard action the character makes an attack at his opponent’s hands and wrists that reduces their Damage by -2, for a number of rounds equal to 1 round per five class levels. The target must make a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + the 1/2 the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier to avoid the penalty. It has a cool down of 1 minute.

Deft Hands (General)
Requirements: Feint, DEX 21
Whenever the character uses Feint against his opponent, if his DEX modifier is higher than his CHA, he may add the difference between his to his Bluff roll (note: This feat could be made available to all classes).

Expanded Synergy (Class)
Requires Weapon Synergy, INT 19, Class Level 21
The Master of the Longsword may now apply bonuses from Weapon Finesse, etc. in one weapon to all Qualifying Weapons.

Half-Sword (Class)
As a standard action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack on his opponent at his full BAB. If it hits he may add his Coup-de-Grâce bonus to his damage roll, even if his opponent is standing. It has a cool-down of 1 minute.

Leveraged Grip (Class)
When wielding one of his Qualifying Weapons, so long as his off-hand is empty the Master of the Longsword may treat it as a finesse weapon.

Master's Defense (Class)
The Master of the Longsword may add 1/2 his weapon's Enhancement Bonus as AC (Shield) against melee attacks. This bonus stacks with his bonus for Skillful Defense.

Master of Arms (Class)
The Master of the Longsword has fully mastered his weapons, to the point that his attacks come so quickly and furiously he may press his opponents beyond their ability to keep up. As a result, each round the Master lands a successful attack while Vor is active, the defender must succeed a Reflex Save with a DC of 10 + the 1/2 Master’s class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier, or the AC and AB penalties suffered by his opponent increase by 2.

Master of the Longsword (Proficiency)
This proficiency grants the character access to: Bastard Sword, Estoc, Falchion, Greatsword, Halberd, Katana, Longsword, Polehammer, Quarterstaff, Scimitar, Spear, Zweihander

Provost of Arms (Class)
The Master of the Longsword’s studies have taught him how to place his blows for greatest effect. The damage penalty for fighting in Measured Blows is therefore negated.

Scholar of Arms (Class)
The Master of the Longsword's knowledge of weapons lends him an intuitive grasp of their inherent properties, granting him bonuses in his skill at wielding his Qualifying Weapons. He gains an additional +1 AB for every 10 ranks of Lore (Martial).

Skillful Defense (Class)
The Master of the Longsword has learned to defend himself with his weapons as if they were a shield in melee combat. He gains +1 AC (Shield) for every 10 ranks of Parry. This only applies against melee attacks. (Optional: Taking Improved Parry increases this bonus to +2 per 10 ranks)

Strike of Wrath (Class)
As a Full Round Action the Master of the Longsword may execute an attack at his full Base Attack Bonus. If it hits, the defender must succeed a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + the 1/2 Master’s class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier, or sustain -2 CON damage for five rounds. It has a cooldown of 2 minutes.

Weapon Synergy (Class)
The Master of the Longsword has undertaken sufficient study that he has mastered the similarities in how his weapons are wielded, and may apply any bonuses from Weapon Focus, etc. feats to all weapons in its type by selecting one of two feats:

Weapon Synergy (Swords)
Bastard Sword, Estoc, Falchion, Greatsword, Katana, Longsword, Scimitar

Weapon Synergy (Polearms)
Halberd, Polehammer, Quarterstaff, Spear, Zweihander

Wrestling at Sword (General)
Requirement: DEX 13, Knockdown
If the character’s DEX modifier is higher than his STR, the character may add the difference to his Knockdown checks.

Vor (Class)
The Master of the Longsword's unrelenting assault takes the initiative, and keeps his opponent off-balance and forces them to react to him. As a standard action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack at his full BAB. If the attack hits the defender must succeed a Reflex Save with a DC of 10 + the 1/2 Master’s class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier or suffer a penalty of -2 to AC and AB for the next five rounds.
I've removed pre-existing feats from the progression. Therefore abilities like Feint, Knockdown, Combat Insight, etc. must be taken as normal, or gained from other classes. Mordhau was too similar to Pommel Strike, so has been removed. Coup-De-Grace remains vs. Prone, but now coming on levels 6, 11, 16, 21, 26 for a maximum of 5d6 damage vs. Prone targets. This will address one of Khaz's complaints about its inability to do damage. I've also tweaked Half-Sword so that rather than a Scripted mode, it's a Standard Action that inflicts CdG damage to a standing target. So MotLS CAN hit hard, but under the right circumstances.

I've returned Skillful Defense and Master's Defense to vs. Melee as I originally wrote it. I changed it to Current Target on the version I posted here due to questions over whether vs. Melee AC buffs work, however I'm pretty sure I saw other classes with AC feats that work on melee only. Aggressive Defender has become a non-stacking AC (Deflection) bonus, so while it DOES add an AC bonus to Measured Blows, it's not doing anything a (common) ring or other gear can't already replace.

Weapon Synergy has been reworked slightly. The tricky "Wield stuff without Proficiency" has been removed and replaced with a Class Proficiency covering the appropriate gear. Vor and Relentless Barrage have been combined, eliminating the Concentration Check penalty, and Master of Arms has been tweaked to require a Save on the stacking AB/AC penalties. I moved the "Finesse 2Her" to a feat at Level 15, and came up with something new for Provost.

There's a bunch of other tweaks in there, as well.

On to the PrC:
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Master of the Longsword

The Master of the Longsword is a professional warrior trained in the use of two-handed swords and polearms who, rather than relying on raw power, makes use of speed and finesse to harry his opponents with an accurate barrage of blows to keep them off-balance. Unlike the Weapon Master he doesn't heavily specialize in one type of weapon, but has instead studied the synergy between a range of equipment, enabling him to wield them all equally well.

Requirements

BAB: +7
Abilities: DEX 15
Feats: Measured Blows, Wrestling at Sword, Weapon Focus in a Qualifying Weapon, 4 Ranks Tumble

Hit Dice: D8
BAB: High

Proficiencies
Weapons: Master of the Longsword
Armor: Light

Saves
High: Reflex, Will
Low: Fort

Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Lore: History, Lore: Local, Parry, Spot, Taunt, Tumble

Note: This class does NOT qualify as Fighter levels for Feat purposes.

All Master of the Longsword abilities require him to be using a Qualifying Weapon, and for his off-hand to be empty.

Qualifying Weapons: Bastard Sword, Estoc, Falchion, Greatsword, Halberd, Katana, Longsword, Polehammer, Quarterstaff, Scimitar, Spear, Zweihander


Feat Progression

Level 1 Master of the Longsword
Level 2 Crooked Strike
Level 3 Parting Strike
Level 4 Vor
Level 5 Coup-de-Grâce 1d6
Level 6 Weapon Synergy
Level 7
Level 8 Strike of Wrath
Level 9 Master’s Defense
Level 10 Coup-de-Grâce 2d6, Master of Arms

New Feat Descriptions

Break Fall (General)
Requirement: DEX 21, Wrestling at Sword
If knocked down, the character can make a second check to escape the knockdown.

Coup-de-Grâce (Class)
The Master of the Longsword inflicts an extra 1d6 Damage against Prone opponents. At Level 10 this increases to 2d6. (Optional: This stacks with the Coup-de-Grâce Bonus Feat when equipping a Rondel, for a maximum of 3d6 extra damage)

Crooked Strike (Class)
As a standard action the character makes an attack at his opponent’s hands and wrists that reduces their Damage by -2, for a number of rounds equal to 1 round per five class levels. The target must make a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier to avoid the penalty. It has a cool down of 1 minute.

Deft Hands (General)
Requirements: Feint, DEX 21
Whenever the character uses Feint against his opponent, if his DEX modifier is higher than his CHA, he may add the difference between his to his Bluff roll (note: This feat could be made available to all classes).

Expanded Synergy (Class)
Requirements Weapon Synergy, 19 INT, Character Level 21: The Master of the Longsword may now apply bonuses from Weapon Focus, etc., to all his Qualifying Weapons.

Master of Arms (Class)
The Master of the Longsword has fully mastered his weapons. Whenever wielding a Qualifying Weapon he may now treat it as a Finesse Weapon.

Master of the Longsword (Proficiency)
This proficiency grants the character access to: Bastard Sword, Estoc, Falchion, Greatsword, Halberd, Katana, Longsword, Polehammer, Quarterstaff, Scimitar, Spear, Zweihander

Master's Defense (Class)
The Master of the Longsword may add his weapon's Enhancement Bonus as AC (Shield) against melee attacks.

Measured Blows (General)
Requirement: Weapon Finesse
The character has trained to make precise attacks when wielding one of his weapons by tightening up his movements and making smaller and quicker strikes, gaining accuracy at the expense of damage. When this mode is activated, he gains +3 AB at the expense of -3 Damage.

Parting Strike (Class)
As a standard action the Master of the Longsword executes a quick cut to the top of his opponent's scalp to distract him by opening a wound that will bleed into his eyes. The attack is made at his full BAB, and if it connects the target must succeed at a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + the Master's class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier or be blinded for the next round. It has a cooldown of 1 minute.

Strike of Wrath (Class)
As a Full Round Action the Master of the Longsword may execute an attack at his full Base Attack Bonus. If it hits, the defender must succeed a Fort Save with a DC of 10 + the Master’s class level + 1/2 his DEX modifier, or sustain -2 CON damage for one round per three class levels. It has a cooldown of 2 minutes.

Vor (Class)
The Master of the Longsword's unrelenting assault takes the initiative, and keeps his opponent off-balance and forces them to react to him. As a standard action, the Master of the Longsword makes an attack at his full BAB. If the attack is successful, for the next five rounds the target suffers a penalty of -2 to AC and AB.

Weapon Synergy (Class)
The Master of the Longsword has undertaken sufficient study that he has mastered the similarities in how his weapons are wielded, and may apply any bonuses from Weapon Focus, etc. feats to all weapons in its type by selecting one of two feats:

Weapon Synergy (Swords)
Bastard Sword, Estoc, Falchion, Greatsword, Katana, Longsword, Scimitar

Weapon Synergy (Polearms)
Halberd, Polehammer, Quarterstaff, Spear, Zweihander

Wrestling at Sword (General)
Requirement: DEX 13, Knockdown
If the character’s DEX modifier is higher than his STR, the character may add the difference to his Knockdown checks. If Half-Sword is active, he may add his weapon's Enhancement Bonus to his roll.
Not too much has changed here from the previous version, just a few minor tweaks. Saves for both Base and PrC versions were set to High Reflex/Will to address one of Khaz's concerns.

And of course the new toys:
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Rondel

Type: Martial Weight: 1.0 pound(s)
Damage Type: Piercing
Size: Tiny
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 1d4
Bonus Feat: Coup-De-Grâce
Feats: Martial

The rondel is a specialized form of dagger with a long, slender, needle-like point designed specifically for penetrating between the joints of plate armor. Its main purpose is to deliver a coup-de-grâce to fallen opponents or to serve as a knight's last line of personal defense, however it has also become popular among merchants and tradesmen.

Polehammer

Type: Martial Weight: 8.0 pound(s)
Damage Type: Bludgeoning and Piercing
Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 2d6
Feats: Martial

As armor grew heavier, weapons evolved to better contend with it, leading the conventional warhammer to develop into the polehammer. The polehammer consists of a hammer head at the end of a 6-8ft shaft, and is a favored weapon of heavily-armored knights. In addition to the hammer head, polehammers generally featured a reverse spike for punching holes through armor or for hooking knights off their horse, and a spike at the end for thrusting like a spear.

Estoc

Type: Exotic Weight: 4 pounds
Damage Type: Piercing
Size: Medium
Critical: 18-20/x2 Damage: 1d8
Feats: Exotic

A particular form of longsword featuring a narrow, pyramidal blade for thrusting. Unlike the conventional longsword it has no cutting ability, and was designed for piercing the joints in plate armor.

Zweihander

Type: Martial Weight: 10.0 pound(s)
Damage Type: Slashing and Piercing
Size: Large
Critical: 20/x3 Damage: 3d4
Feats: Exotic

The largest and most impressive of swords, these massive blades range as much as 6ft in total length. Because of their size these swords have much more in common with polearms, and are often favored by wealthy mercenaries for contending with pike formations (note: mechanically a Zweihander would be considered a polearm).
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Ambaryerno
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:32 am

Re: Master of the Longsword v.2

Unread post by Ambaryerno »

Another thought for Half-Sword on the Base Class would be to make it a scripted modal that activates in Measured Blows once again. It increases MB to +6 AB and -6 damage, (so sort of like ICE/IPA) however adds an additional 1d6 to Coup-de-Grâce. Provost would reduce the damage penalty to -3.
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