Augment Form Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple

[Sun Wukong]

Not going to make it, but it is an idea that popped up.

The Shapechange spell has the following forms: Red Dragon, Black Dragon, Blue Dragon and Bronze Dragon.

The Dragon Disciple PRC has the following alignment restrictions:

• Red Dragon: Chaotic Evil
• Black Dragon: Chaotic Evil
• Blue Dragon: Lawful Evil
• Bronze Dragon: Lawful Good

Augment Form feat turns low BAB progression classes into a medium BAB progression classes, and hence you have the optimal number of levels in any low BAB progression class if the number of levels is divisible by four. This means level total of 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, ord 28 - because with Augment Form feat those now grant 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, or 21 points of BAB.

Therefore, what kind of a Red Dragon, Black Dragon, Blue Dragon or Bronze Dragon based build would you go for? The Dragon Disciple is a 7/10 spell casting progression class, and you cannot make a build such as Sorcerer 13/Blackguard (or cleric) 3/Archmage 4/Dragon Disciple 10 because you cannot qualify for Archmage without being in violation of the 3 by 20 rule. This is because Dragon Disciple does not provide spell casting progression at level 3, and Sorcerer gets access to 7th level spells with 14 levels of spell casting progression.

So, with that said, how would you make a Dragon Disciple character that takes the correct draconic form through the Shapechange spell?

[Khazrak]

Most of the dragon forms are evil, so chances are this is an evil character. If so, it could be worth considering something like 4 levels of Blackguard (for Dark Blessing/Divine Might). Elsewise, a Lawful Good Dragon Disciple could take 4 levels of Paladin (ouch, XP penalties) for Divine Grace/Divine Might. With 4 levels of Blackguard/Paladin and 4 levels of Fighter, this leaves you with 22 class levels that grant caster levels, 10 of which must be Dragon Disciple.

Sorcerers get 5th level spells at level 6. So, with 6 levels of sorcerer and 1 level of Paladin, you could get into the Eldritch Knight class by level 8. You can take 10 levels of Eldritch Knight, putting you at 16 low BAB caster levels (6 sorcerer, 10 dragon disciple) which now count as medium BAB.

Finally, Charisma is your god stat. Pump it to high heaven. Get the Emeral Boots from the Wide in Baldur's Gate; this gives you +3 dodge, +3 charisma, 10 extra HP, and most importantly Extra Turning. That's more Divine Might uses per day.

The end result is a Sorc 6 / Pal 4 / EK 10 / DD 10. Using Practiced Spellcaster, that's CL 26. Your ending BAB is 26. You get CHA to saves and CHA to damage via Divine Might, or CHA to AC if you take Divine Shield (but now you're stretching that resource thin). You get 9th level spells easily, obviously. It's not shabby.

An alternative route could be to take 4 levels of Fighter instead of Paladin or Blackguard so you can get +4 damage and +2 attack with Unarmed Strike Mastery + Weapon Spec. Those SHOULD apply to your dragon forms.

One thing to consider is that race-wise you get the benefits of whatever race you choose at the stat excluding the physical stats. In using Polymorph, I've found that it seems racial spell resistance, racial feats, etcetera seem to function just fine, but the physical attributes change. So, that means choosing a race either for A) the mental attributes or B) for the special abilities or C) a bonus feat. Of course, there's also D) Roleplay Value, but that's a given. Of course, needing 13 STR for Power Attack is noteworthy if you go Blackguard or Paladin (especially since you want that for Divine Might).

[Sun Wukong]

Sorcerers get 5th level spells at level 10. Usually with PRCs the requirement is 3rd level spells, which are acquired at level 6, so a bit of a typo?

If you are going for Blackguard for Dark Blessing and Divine Might, then 3 levels should suffice. You need the 4th for Divine Shield. As for Paladins, they need 4 levels to get Divine Grace and Divine Might, and 5th for Divine Shield.

Personally I was thinking more along the lines of a Sorcerer 6/Blood Magus 4/Eldritch Knight 10/Dragon Disciple 10with a constitution based build to get Fast Healing III as soon as possible. It would have BAB of 24 with Augment Form, and epic feat left to spend on Dragon Knight. It would limit the choice of the dragon colour to Red or Black, probably to just Red as the dragon summoned by Dragon Knight would be Red. The blood droughts and scars from Blood Magus could also be rather handy.

As for a good variant, I suppose a Sorcerer 6/Harper Mage 4/Elritch Knight 10/Dragon Disciple 10 could be something worthy of consideration.

[Khazrak]

BIG typo, yeah. Build still functions; dunno how I wrote that. DM dragon sorcerer would take shapeshifting a bunch but be interesting.

One thing to remember is that Divine Might, feats, clickies, potions, etc. CANNOT be used while shapechanged. So to use them you'd have to polymorph back out of dragon form.

4 levels of Blackguard for Divine Might/Shield would be the idea. But the Paladin setup is actually more easily achieved, I think, given the BAB requirement of Blackguard.

-----

The blood magus or Harper Mage setup DOES sound pretty interesting, and it'd be less annoying to handle than the Divine Might CHA-focused build. I like it. But CON-heavy seems a little meaningless if you're Shapechanging anyway, at least to me. Might as well focus on CHA instead.

[Sun Wukong]

Not exactly, the arcane spell book has many defensive spells. DR from 10, 20, 30 and at times in an uncapped form. Combine this with Elemental Shield and you have reduced the amount of damage you take, while increased the damage your attackers recieve.

Then you can apply concealment and mirror images when the Elemental Shield does not function due to fire damage resistance or immunity.

In otherwords the Fast Healing will increase your surviviability, and the high constitution modifier will also reduce the potential HP loss upon shifting back, while boosting the damage of your breath weapon.

I had a Fast Healing III polymorpher prior to the polymorphing changes, and he was already a beast prior to that.

[Sun Wukong]

Update:

As for Dragon Disciple builds that make use of Shapechange... I think that a Sorcerer 8/Cleric 3/Blood Magus 9/Dragon Disciple 10 could be very well be the nastiest one. Caster level of 30 with Blood Magic, BAB of 21 with Augment Form, Divine Shield and Might to add charisma modifier to damage and AC, and Fast Healing III to increase your tankiness even further.

You just need to go for Sorcerer 6/Cleric 3/Dragon Disciple 3/Blood Magus 8 pre-epic, then you just get the the remaining Blood Magus and Dragon Disciple levels, and leave the two last sorcerer levels last. Thus at level 21 you get +2 Constitution from Blood Magus Infusion, and at level 24 you get another +2 Constitution from Dragon Disciple, which can let you grab Fast Healing I, II, and III at levels 25, 27, and 29.

A human could start out with 13 STR, 8 DEX, 17 CON, 12 INT, 8 WIS, and 16 CHA. You just increase constitution by two, then charisma by five. Grab a Great Charisma feat and cast Eagle's Splendour on yourself for +4 charisma. Dragon Apotheoisis grants another +2 to Charisma.

Thus your level 30 ability scores would sit at: 15 STR, 8 DEX, 23 CON, 14 INT, 8 WIS, and 28 CHA (buffed up). STR, DEX, and CON do not matter that much as you can just make use of the Dragon Shape.

List of feats taken, Cleric Domains are not included:

• Level 1: Spell Focus Transmutation, Augment Form
  Level 3: Toughness
  Level 6: Steafast Determination
  Level 9: Practised Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
  Level 12: Power Attack
  Level 15: Divine Might
  Level 18: Divine Shield
  Level 21: Extend Spell
  Level 23: Great Charisma I
  Level 25: Fast Healing I
  Level 27: Fast Healing II
  Level 29: Fast Healing III

Alignment restriction: Chaotic Good or Chaotic Evil.

As a Cleric, you could get Toughness feat through Earth domain. Other good domains would be Water for Evasion, Undeath for Extra Turning, Luck for Luck of Heroes, or Chaos for Slippery Mind. I have not gone for deity shopping, so I am not sure which of the above domains a Chaotic Good or Chaotic Evil character could get...

But yeah, I think that the above build would be the nastiest Shapechange based Dragon Disciple. You can prove me wrong.

[Khazrak]

Undeath Domain appears on exactly 1 deity according to this page, and it's a Drow deity. That deity also gets Chaos. Slippery Mind + Extra Turning ain't bad. -CON, however, IS bad.

Umberlee grants Chaos + Water. For a Black Dragon Disciple, that's pretty perfect. Talos makes a good alternate if you want Uncanny Dodge (to avoid sneak attacks).

Beshaba and Shaundakul both offer Chaos + Luck, so that's a good deal. They could work for either Black or Red Dragon Disciples. Shaundakul also offers Travel, which is +barb speed if the server hasn't removed that.

The ONLY Chaos + Earth deity I see is a gnomish one: Urdlen. This actually sounds like a not-too-bad deal: gnomish STR penalty doesn't matter, gnomish +CON DOES matter (easier to get target CON), and gnomes get some decent defensive racials (dodge AC vs giants, +saves IIRC).

Auril offers Water + Air (Evasion + Uncanny Dodge). Not a terrible option.

If you wanted to make this character a Gold Dwarf, you could worship Abbathor, I suppose Luck + Trickery = Luck of Heroes and Feint. It's not a terribly great option, but perhaps you could use Feint in a support way?

Mask offers Luck + Darkness (Blindfight). Maybe worth considering? I doubt it - you can use magic to get Blindfight.

You can go Myrkul for Darkness + Travel.

Multiple Drow deities offer some mixture of Darkness, Chaos, and Travel. All are good options here. The problem is you're playing a Drow and have -CON.

These all seem like solid picks.

[Sun Wukong]

Drow also get +2 Charisma, so the -2 Constitution is balanced out, basically you are playing a human with spell resistance instead of the extra feat.

As for deity choice, a Chaotic Good character could pick a deity of the Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, or Chaotic Neutral alingments. While a Chaotic Evil character could pick a deity of the Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil, and Chaotic Neutral alignments.

Thus, Chauntea, a Neutral Good deity could be a source of Earth domain. Marthammor Duin for Dwarves gets both Earth and Luck. Etc...

Gnomish strength penalty does hurt a bit with Divine Might and Shield though.

And Dragon Disciple PRC grants blind fight, so Mask is not the best deity, mechanically speaking.

A list of deities with alignmnets: http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Deity
And the list of allowed domains on the server: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=56908

[Khazrak]

The issue with chaotic good is you don't have any forms that fit. According to your opening post:

Red Dragon: Chaotic Evil
Black Dragon: Chaotic Evil
Blue Dragon: Lawful Evil
Bronze Dragon: Lawful Good

None of which are Chaotic Good. Ergo, CG characters won't work for the concept.

[Sun Wukong]

Well... True, but Bronze and Copper/Brass dragons look alike.

[Hawke]

Well... True, but Bronze and Copper/Brass dragons look alike.

What?


http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bronze_dragon



http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Copper_dragon


http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Brass_dragon


They look completely different. That is like saying all dwarves look... no wait, that is true. All elves look alike, or all sports cars are the same.

Colorwise, the brass and bronze are slightly similar, but still very different, and the Copper is... well not the same colors.



It seems I am not knowledgeable enough to make images show here....

[Reckeo]

Agreed about dragon appearances; to be extremely specific, it would be more accurate to say that specific 'types' of dragons look closer to each other within type. However, I am dating myself and most likely referencing older source material....you could accurately say "Metallic dragons" looks closer to each other, than they do to other forms of dragons outside of the 'metallic' designation. However, even this is not entirely accurate as dragon's have distinctive markings on their wings, size, and various other traits as they age that makes them distinct from each other, not just other semi-related dragon types. Not just color hue, but sub-hues, markings, scales, claw shape, neck/mouth length, teeth, horn shape, amount of horns, how far the wings are back on the body, size of abdomen, skeletal structure, bone density, personality/habitat, it goes on and on.

I can't link pictures either lol.

<3 Dragons. There is a ton of source material that could be explored on the nature of dragon's themselves.

One time I had a conversation with my friend about dragons, and he started going on and on about the parts of the dragon that could be useful. "Scales....hide....dragon horns...."....thus, I started singing "Money by the pound" from the original Pete's Dragon. Epic trolling. Guess you had to be there.

However, for your entertainment....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTMe5p_eTZg

[aaron22]

well i think the most important detail when discussing dragon (x) vs. dragon (y) is the primary breath weapon. in 3.5 i think they included a second, but they still carried the primary one used in 2ed. and maybe before. not sure what dragon's stats are like 1st ed. HD is also a difference that is maybe important.

Great Wyrm:
gold: fire and 41HD
silver: ice, 40HD
bronze: lightning, 39HD
copper: acid, 38HD
brass: sleep gas, 37HD

[Reckeo]

well i think the most important detail when discussing dragon (x) vs. dragon (y) is the primary breath weapon. in 3.5 i think they included a second, but they still carried the primary one used in 2ed. and maybe before. not sure what dragon's stats are like 1st ed. HD is also a difference that is maybe important.

Great Wyrm:
gold: fire and 41HD
silver: ice, 40HD
bronze: lightning, 39HD
copper: acid, 38HD
brass: sleep gas, 37HD

I think age played a great factor as well.

[Sun Wukong]

These are 5th edition dragons, probably:







These are dragons in NWN1:








I honestly cannot tell them apart. (In order of Bronze, Copper, Brass, I think.)

If you right click an image and choose 'Copy image location/Copy image URL' and paste that between image tags, the image should appear. Sometimes it won't if the server that hosts the image dislikes showing it on outside webpages.