Ban the use of non-english languages

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Hoihe
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Hoihe » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:39 am

electric mayhem wrote:Honestly... speak one or the other.

What's the point in going halfway.

If you're going to show-off that you've dived into the made up character lore to spice up your own RP. Don't be surprised when the person you're trying to RP with turns around and either walks away or says "Are you alright?"
May as well speak the full sentences in the Drow tongue if you're clever enough to remember every aspect of it.

Or... as Tsid and others have said. If you're in a specific society location, the common (default in NWN2) could be argued to be their local common tongue wherever you are. IF you're in company of mixed races... then use the in game widget.

Just because someone either doesn't know the local racial language OOCly mind you (ie this starts diving into the meta game realm), or doesn't visit the forums, and then goes to look for a particular thread, they shouldn't be disadvantaged in the game in regards to racial languages, espcially since mechanically their character DOES know the language ICly.

This entire thread can be supplanted to any racial language for that manner in game.

Using Common to actually mean other languages is pretty common in surface elf RP, especially when doing combat with the log being unreadable.
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NegInfinity
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by NegInfinity » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:50 pm

Hoihe wrote: Using Common to actually mean other languages is pretty common in surface elf RP, especially when doing combat with the log being unreadable.
In my experience communicating with elves trying to use "elfmonn" is quite disruptive.

A character that is inserting random elven words into common chat is going to receive bunch of tells pretty much immediatly. Thankfully they're very rare.

Drow words are simply more well known.

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Hoihe
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Hoihe » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:15 pm

NegInfinity wrote:
Hoihe wrote: Using Common to actually mean other languages is pretty common in surface elf RP, especially when doing combat with the log being unreadable.
In my experience communicating with elves trying to use "elfmonn" is quite disruptive.

A character that is inserting random elven words into common chat is going to receive bunch of tells pretty much immediatly. Thankfully they're very rare.

Drow words are simply more well known.

No no. No elf words at all. You just assume that Common = Elven until a new person arrives. You emote that you were speaking elven until their arrival and switch back to DMFI elven until they show they understand, then ask if you can switch back to common again.
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

CleverUsername123
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by CleverUsername123 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:40 am

Hoihe wrote:
NegInfinity wrote:
Hoihe wrote: Using Common to actually mean other languages is pretty common in surface elf RP, especially when doing combat with the log being unreadable.
In my experience communicating with elves trying to use "elfmonn" is quite disruptive.

A character that is inserting random elven words into common chat is going to receive bunch of tells pretty much immediatly. Thankfully they're very rare.

Drow words are simply more well known.

No no. No elf words at all. You just assume that Common = Elven until a new person arrives. You emote that you were speaking elven until their arrival and switch back to DMFI elven until they show they understand, then ask if you can switch back to common again.
Why not just use the in-game language thing?
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Sapper Woody
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Sapper Woody » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:37 am

I completely understand using common and RPing it as another language. That makes sense, especially in combat situation. Or, as I do with my familiar (since the familiar can only mechanically speak common) I'll emote that their speaking one of the other three languages that she can speak.

However, I feel the pain of the OP. Simple, well known words I believe can add a bit of flavor. But using the common language and sprinkling in lesser known words from any other language is annoying. Even more so when I send a tell to the speaker, asking what it means, only to find out it's a language my character speaks, and so the character would have understood it.

It's not a huge issue to me, but it is a hassle to have to ask.
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NegInfinity
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by NegInfinity » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:38 am

Hoihe wrote: No no. No elf words at all. You just assume that Common = Elven until a new person arrives.
What the hell. That's extremely poor behavior, and probably rule breach as well.

The problem is you never know how many people are around you, so if you're speaking elven, you should utilize elven language from language chat. If you don't do that, you are not speaking elven, and fifty assassins hiding behind that bush near you will understand every single word you said. So, you're creating problems for yourself and other people as well.

Other players don't know what is going on in your head, what you assume and what you think, unless you signal it.

Honestly, it reminds me of an old post where somebody described how upon reaching city they imagine taking helmet off, wiping their brow, etc. Without emoting. For observer anything you have not emoted does not happen.

So unless you type "*speaks in elven*" at beginning of every single sentence you say, the behavior you've described is an extremely bad idea, and one should never assume that Common is some other language.

It makes things more complicated, and will result in a big mess and accusations of metagaming should the information you spoke result in something complicated.

Use langauge tool.

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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by chad878262 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:00 am

NegInfinity wrote:Use langauge tool.
Oh gods we agree on something... :D
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niapet
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by niapet » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:41 am

My character often uses elvish words in her common speech. She calls drow dhaeraow, and non elves as firya. I find this adds to her character for words that would lose something in translation.... like if she refered to another character as "non-elf" it would sound silly, or of she said betrayer instead of dhaeraow it would be confusing.

I sprinkle in an elvish word here and there people can ask what it means IC, or send a tell if their character speaks elvish...seems to work fine for most.
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Sapper Woody
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Sapper Woody » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:13 am

niapet wrote:My character often uses elvish words in her common speech. She calls drow dhaeraow, and non elves as firya. I find this adds to her character for words that would lose something in translation.... like if she refered to another character as "non-elf" it would sound silly, or of she said betrayer instead of dhaeraow it would be confusing.

I sprinkle in an elvish word here and there people can ask what it means IC, or send a tell if their character speaks elvish...seems to work fine for most.
Like I said, sprinkling some phrases here and there I find to be ok (actually, I don't; but I tolerate it). But your last sentence speaks volumes as to what I mean. If I don't know a word, how am I supposed to know if my character would understand it? It leads to a lot of hassle for no real reason. Especially with my memory. I likely won't remember the word and the translation, and will have to ask two or three times before I remember it.

Then there's some differences. For instance, the word you said "firya". I had never heard of it. And looked it up. Could not find it with a google search, except for a forum similar to ours where someone said it was an insult to humans, specifically (no source given). The word I found to mean "non-elf" was "aethen".
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by niapet » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:25 am

Sapper Woody wrote:
niapet wrote:My character often uses elvish words in her common speech. She calls drow dhaeraow, and non elves as firya. I find this adds to her character for words that would lose something in translation.... like if she refered to another character as "non-elf" it would sound silly, or of she said betrayer instead of dhaeraow it would be confusing.

I sprinkle in an elvish word here and there people can ask what it means IC, or send a tell if their character speaks elvish...seems to work fine for most.
Like I said, sprinkling some phrases here and there I find to be ok (actually, I don't; but I tolerate it). But your last sentence speaks volumes as to what I mean. If I don't know a word, how am I supposed to know if my character would understand it? It leads to a lot of hassle for no real reason. Especially with my memory. I likely won't remember the word and the translation, and will have to ask two or three times before I remember it.

Then there's some differences. For instance, the word you said "firya". I had never heard of it. And looked it up. Could not find it with a google search, except for a forum similar to ours where someone said it was an insult to humans, specifically (no source given). The word I found to mean "non-elf" was "aethen".
Context is unusually quite sufficiant...

"I do not care what this firya thinks!"

"All are welcome with us... Tel-Quessir and firya alike"

Rule: if it sounds like an elf is insulting you, they probably are =P
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NegInfinity
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by NegInfinity » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:38 am

niapet wrote:My character often uses elvish words in her common speech. She calls drow dhaeraow, and non elves as firya. I find this adds to her character for words that would lose something in translation.... like if she refered to another character as "non-elf" it would sound silly, or of she said betrayer instead of dhaeraow it would be confusing.

I sprinkle in an elvish word here and there people can ask what it means IC, or send a tell if their character speaks elvish...seems to work fine for most.
I'm totally making a character named Firya right now.

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Hoihe
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Hoihe » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:14 am

NegInfinity wrote:
Hoihe wrote: No no. No elf words at all. You just assume that Common = Elven until a new person arrives.
What the hell. That's extremely poor behavior, and probably rule breach as well.

The problem is you never know how many people are around you, so if you're speaking elven, you should utilize elven language from language chat. If you don't do that, you are not speaking elven, and fifty assassins hiding behind that bush near you will understand every single word you said. So, you're creating problems for yourself and other people as well.

Other players don't know what is going on in your head, what you assume and what you think, unless you signal it.

Honestly, it reminds me of an old post where somebody described how upon reaching city they imagine taking helmet off, wiping their brow, etc. Without emoting. For observer anything you have not emoted does not happen.

So unless you type "*speaks in elven*" at beginning of every single sentence you say, the behavior you've described is an extremely bad idea, and one should never assume that Common is some other language.

It makes things more complicated, and will result in a big mess and accusations of metagaming should the information you spoke result in something complicated.

Use langauge tool.

Have you ever tried using language tools while engaged in combat or in other scenarios where the combat log is better off muted?
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

NegInfinity
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by NegInfinity » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:09 pm

Hoihe wrote:Have you ever tried using language tools while engaged in combat
Yeah, I have. Scored few hundred kills while yelling insults in infernal mid combat. It was fun.

If it isn't marked as "*speaks in elven*" and doesn't show up translated in the log as elven, it is not elven. It is common.

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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Hoihe » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:35 pm

NegInfinity wrote:
Hoihe wrote:Have you ever tried using language tools while engaged in combat
Yeah, I have. Scored few hundred kills while yelling insults in infernal mid combat. It was fun.

If it isn't marked as "*speaks in elven*" and doesn't show up translated in the log as elven, it is not elven. It is common.

Let me rephrase:

Have you ever tried using language tools to actively co-ordinate with your party members in a scenario that actually requires co-ordination while in a combat scenario where the combat log may or may not be disabled to reduce lag?
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

NegInfinity
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by NegInfinity » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:15 am

Hoihe wrote: Let me rephrase:
You're trying to come up with scenario that would prove that your position is right.
Unfortunately, your proposed scenario is not good.

To have your character speak elven - you have to either utilize language tool, or mark EVERY sentence you speak with "*speaks elven*" or "*in elven*".

Failure to do so would mean your character is speaking common, regardless of circumstances.

The scenario you proposed would not prevent you from marking your sentences as elven via emote.

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