Ban the use of non-english languages

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Reckeo
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Reckeo » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:28 am

I think it should be permissive if there is no word in common to reflect the idea.

If I recall correctly, the Japanese word Suzuki, captures the idea of 'witnessing' a tree, not that of the tree itself. Similar to laying underneath a tree and gazing up at it's leaves, this is a word for a very specific point of view/perspective. This is why the company Suzuki chose it for it's name, to represent the near surreal experience of riding through a country road as a passenger, and blissfully gazing up at the trees while driving on the road. There is no one word to represent this feeling in English.

This could easily be extended to the languages of the realm, and make for excellent RP.

However, using common filter and speaking in entire sentences for "I think something is over there", or "Nice to meet you" is verbose and superfluous. The occasional curse word (as reflective of a characters knee-jerk reaction), or for words that don't translate well in common should be when this is done, not for everyday mundane conversation; it detracts from RP not enrich it.

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Hoihe
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Hoihe » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:37 am

Reckeo wrote:I think it should be permissive if there is no word in common to reflect the idea.

If I recall correctly, the Japanese word Suzuki, captures the idea of 'witnessing' a tree, not that of the tree itself. Similar to laying underneath a tree and gazing up at it's leaves, this is a word for a very specific point of view/perspective. This is why the company Suzuki chose it for it's name, to represent the near surreal experience of riding through a country road as a passenger, and blissfully gazing up at the trees while driving on the road. There is no one word to represent this feeling in English.

This could easily be extended to the languages of the realm, and make for excellent RP.

However, using common filter and speaking in entire sentences for "I think something is over there", or "Nice to meet you" is verbose and superfluous. The occasional curse word (as reflective of a characters knee-jerk reaction), or for words that don't translate well in common should be when this is done, not for everyday mundane conversation; it detracts from RP not enrich it.

This kind of usage describes dhaerrow/N'tel-quessir and similar descriptors. N'tel-quessir has an added bonus of humans not speaking elven not recognizing that you just called them not-people.
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

scriver
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by scriver » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:50 am

NegInfinity wrote:
Hoihe wrote: No no. No elf words at all. You just assume that Common = Elven until a new person arrives.
What the hell. That's extremely poor behavior, and probably rule breach as well.
Nah, I'd be totally cool with this.
NegInfinity wrote:one should never assume that Common is some other language.
What about Undercommon?

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aaron22
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by aaron22 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:11 pm

as to the common=another lang opinion. in PnP are you not speaking dwarven if you say it in english or whatever your native lang is? or do you and your comrades have to actually learn languages? and do you have to actually fight a dragon? are you playing make believe or are you actually a 9th level fighter? its not real. its all make believe. you are not actually Tanis and nobody expects you to be.
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NegInfinity
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by NegInfinity » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:09 pm

scriver wrote:
NegInfinity wrote:
Hoihe wrote: No no. No elf words at all. You just assume that Common = Elven until a new person arrives.
What the hell. That's extremely poor behavior, and probably rule breach as well.
Nah, I'd be totally cool with this.
I totally wouldn't be, there's a high chance I'd need to retcon knowing huge pile of information I'd learn from such character. This is just too much potential headache.
scriver wrote: What about Undercommon?
Best idea is to switch to undercommon. Otherwise you risk missing a chance to catch one of those pesky surfacers.

Incarnate
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Incarnate » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:52 am

Sun Wukong wrote: There is nothing wrong with using the in game voice entry, but when some players insist on using a foreign language it makes it greatly difficult to have any reasonable in character or out of character conversations. At best it is just few odd words scattered here and there, and at worst you are required to use an outside translator to even understand basic level of communication. Some might argue that it creates a more immersive environment, but it could not be farther away from the truth. It creates barriers and conflicts, and breeds a sense of elitism based on a false notion of role-playing quality. Some take great pride in how difficult they are to understand and interact with - and it is of no intrinsic value. Such players are best to avoid, and therefore I feel the server would be better off by banning the use of foreign words, whether sprinkled here and there or in full sentences.
I agree, for everyone who doesn't agree, please consider that there are very good reasons why the language system has been developed and implemented, the main one being you're supposed to use it when speaking in another language than common.

In the game world:
English = Common
Any other Planet Earth language than English = Gibberish / Non-sensical Non-Coherent speech.
- this also means any invented languages outside of the BG:TSCC server to depict a sci-fi, fantasy, etc. language.

For instance, some seem to think that Dwarfs speak german - that just not the case, they speak Dwarven in Forgotten Realms. Elfs speak elven, Drow speak drow, and so on.

You disagree? Point me to an an Official Forgotten Realms reference that state otherwise.
NegInfinity wrote:
Hoihe wrote: No no. No elf words at all. You just assume that Common = Elven until a new person arrives.
What the hell. That's extremely poor behavior, and probably rule breach as well.
I just tried to look it up in the rules, but there doesn't seem to be any actual rules regarding this, so if there aren't there probably should be a ruling regarding it.

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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by NegInfinity » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:10 am

Incarnate wrote: I just tried to look it up in the rules, but there doesn't seem to be any actual rules regarding this, so if there aren't there probably should be a ruling regarding it.
There's no exact rule against that, but it is quite similar to not playing your sheet.

Like playing your character as an outsider. If it appears as common to all people present then it should be common.

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Hoihe
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Hoihe » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:43 am

NegInfinity wrote:
Incarnate wrote: I just tried to look it up in the rules, but there doesn't seem to be any actual rules regarding this, so if there aren't there probably should be a ruling regarding it.
There's no exact rule against that, but it is quite similar to not playing your sheet.

Like playing your character as an outsider. If it appears as common to all people present then it should be common.

Again, I dare you to try and co-ordinate in non-common in a scenario where combat log is turned off.

Hell, even just walking with the voice entry tool is PITA.
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

Incarnate
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Incarnate » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:35 pm

Hoihe wrote:
NegInfinity wrote:
Incarnate wrote: I just tried to look it up in the rules, but there doesn't seem to be any actual rules regarding this, so if there aren't there probably should be a ruling regarding it.
There's no exact rule against that, but it is quite similar to not playing your sheet.

Like playing your character as an outsider. If it appears as common to all people present then it should be common.

Again, I dare you to try and co-ordinate in non-common in a scenario where combat log is turned off.

Hell, even just walking with the voice entry tool is PITA.
I think it would be a good idea to be able to switch to a preferred/native language - so whenever you're not using the language tool this will be default language you speak in. I put in a suggestion for this.

You can support it and/or give your thoughts on it here: Suggestion to change default language.

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Hoihe
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Hoihe » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:25 pm

Incarnate wrote: I think it would be a good idea to be able to switch to a preferred/native language - so whenever you're not using the language tool this will be default language you speak in. I put in a suggestion for this.

You can support it and/or give your thoughts on it here: Suggestion to change default language.

Problem isn't writing in it. Problem is understanding what is said.
"The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place."
"The wind and the waves are always on the side of the ablest navigator."

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Xanfyrst
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Xanfyrst » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:26 am

Don't Drow get elven as their language? I mean, Drow still speak the elven tongue.
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Kaeldre
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by Kaeldre » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:14 am

On the drommon note, I can definitely see cause for concern if someone goes around blasting full drommon sentences in your face. I would personally find that excessive. However, I have yet to ever experience this as an Underdark player. I think this sort of behaviour is incredibly rare, at least at this point in time.

Then there were the fact that some people mix a few words of drow tongue with common. I usually find this practise quite flavorful. This mostly revolves around 6-10 words being used. I dont think that learning a few words is that much trouble, and any newbie would catch on pretty quickly.
Xas = Yes
Nau = No
Vendui = Hello
Aluve = Goodbe
Bella dos = Thank you
Bwael = Good

Some people like to use drow for certain pronouns, which can be a little confusing at first. Again, nothing to fuss over in my opinion.
Usstan = I
Dos = You

These words and some titles are commonly used by both players and NPCs alike. It has been part of Underdark play since the start of this server and long before it. The Underdark has its own history and culture, both lorewise and playerwise. Removing this element of gameplay is ignoring the latter. That being said, it is important to remember that everything good comes in moderation and this is no exception.
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DaloLorn
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Re: Ban the use of non-english languages

Unread post by DaloLorn » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:32 am

For my part, I've taken to restricting myself to titles and stuff. Looking up the pronouns and whatever verbs I can find translations for doesn't serve to immerse me in my character - quite the contrary, in fact, so I prefer to opt out. The titles, racial identifiers and similar nouns seem to be worth the trouble, but the rest...

If someone disagrees, that's fine - Silia's second-in-command (out of a crippled 'House' of three :roll:) uses the language liberally, and I've managed to keep up quite well. Just as long as it's clear that I'm not going to use it to the same degree as you are. :P ('You' in this case being anyone who plays their drow like He'chice'ra.)

(Incidentally, I fully agree with Kaeldre's first sentence - I've encountered something similar with Mandalorian RPers in SWGEmu, who were quite content with being completely undecipherable with their Mando'a... but then, that might have been the point in that particular scenario. :))
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