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Shield Bashing Blackguard?

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:00 pm
by Fenrir
Hey!

I have read about the shield feats at the wiki. Now I wonder if these feats are worth it.

Does Divine Might work with it?
A Blackguard gets +3d6 sneak, so after succesful shield slam he gets a full round of sneaks? Sounds neat.. but it takes a full round action where you only bash once?

I assume to get most of it one should get:
- Agile Shield Fighter
- Epic Weapon Focus Shield (req for Epic Spec)
- Epic Weapon Spec Shield (+3 Attacks for Tower Shield)
- Shield Spec (+1 AC)
- Shield Slam & Charge (maybe)

Shield get -5 AB on second/third/fourth attack like weapons? So maybe its not worth to go Tower Shield & Epic Feats unless one goes 30 fighter.

Thoughts? Advices?

Re: Shield Bashing Blackguard?

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:11 am
by Sun Wukong
I think shield bash damage is just based on strength + shield perks.

But as for a build, Fighter 12/Rogue 14/Blackguard 4 might be what you are looking for. No matter the race, you can avoid multiclassing experience penalty as long as you keep Fighter and Rogue within one level of each other. Rogue 14 is taken at level 30, a point where multiclassing experience penalty does not count anymore.

Rogue 10 for Epic Precision is a good idea. Weapon Focus feats are worth more than Weapon Spezialization, and you might even consider getting Feint even though it too will cost a ton of feats.

Re: Shield Bashing Blackguard?

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:33 pm
by Fenrir
Shield Slam + Divine Might works?
Shield Slam full round action or as part of an attack round?
Northlander Hewing makes a greatsword deal maximum damage (12 dmg instead of 7 avg.). Wiki says it also adds strength mod as physical dmg, thats true? Or is it simply the standard strength mod?

Re: Shield Bashing Blackguard?

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:46 am
by Sun Wukong
Fenrir wrote:Shield Slam + Divine Might works?
I do not think you get Divine Might damage on Shield Slam or Bash attacks, those just deal the damage based on your shield feats and shield properties.
Fenrir wrote:Shield Slam full round action or as part of an attack round?
It was a few years ago when I had my strength based Rogue/Fighter Shield Slammer, but I think it was part of an attack round. Or I just the last attack flurry for it, like with Knocdown.
Fenrir wrote:Northlander Hewing makes a greatsword deal maximum damage (12 dmg instead of 7 avg.). Wiki says it also adds strength mod as physical dmg, thats true? Or is it simply the standard strength mod?
There is the Manticore Greatsword with +4 EB and +1d6 extra damage, a very expensive weapon. Then there is the Will of the Uthgard Warmace with +4 EB, +1d4 extra damage and keen, a more affordable weapon.

Now, I have a strength based Barbarian with Northlander Hewing instead of Power Attack. This is the damage he does in game at level 25 with Epic Might and +2 strength item:

12 (Warmace damage dice maximised)
+ 4 (Extra physical damage dice maximised)
+ 4 (Enchantment Bonus)
+ 19 (Strength modifier * 1.5)
+ 13 (Northlander extra damage based on Strength modifier)
= 52 (Damage a hit, a critical hits are about 100 since Northlander Hewing damage does not improve critical hits.)

Now, if he teams up with the cookie cutter Frenzied Weapon Master of similar level, the cookie cutter Frenzied Weapon Master will out perform against anything that is not immune to critical hits. More attacks, more critical hit damage, and Supreme Cleave to wipe out multiple foes in a single round. Yet it tends to be the other way around the moment we face an opponent that is immune to critical hits, and we both need to wield a shield for the extra AC.

If I spend my remaining epic feats on Great Strength, the above build will end up dealing 60 damage per two-handed a hit. The typical Frenzied Weapon Master will end up dealing about 56~ damage per avarage two-handed hit, the range is from 49 to 63.

But yeah, you do get the modified strength modifier as extra damage with Northlander Hewing.

As for combining Northlander Hewing with Divine Might, I would not outside of Sword and Board fighting. Normally you want as many attacks as possible, but Northlander Hewing in Sword and Board fighting just adds so much damage per hit that Power Attack does not quite keep up with the pace. But... I have not tested or done the math on that yet, I am saying this based on gut feeling.

Re: Shield Bashing Blackguard?

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:18 pm
by Khazrak
Shield Slam isn't quite a full-round action right now IIRC. BUT it can interrupt a full-round action. It's still very useful, as it's another chance to stun, and again, doesn't take as much time as a full-round action if you use it at the end of your last flurry.

Re: Shield Bashing Blackguard?

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:17 pm
by Fenrir
Thank you, you helped me alot :) .