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Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:03 pm
by niapet
Okay so scrolls.. they weigh 0.1 EACH. this is the same as many potions.. "A pint is a pound the world around!"
Anyway seeing as wizards tend to have low strength this seems like a problem that one of their key abilities, scribe scroll, works against them due to weight. Scrolls should weigh like 0.01, or , if 0.1 is the minimum, they should weigh nothing. Ten scrolls currently weigh about what a ream of printer paper weighs.
Some non-wizards may think this isn't a big deal.. It is a big deal. I personally tend to carry many stacks of 10 scrolls.. and my scrolls currently weigh as much as all my other gear.
This is also a mjor issue for rogues since they tend to have lower strength and make good used of UMD to use scrolls. Well, the smart ones do =P
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:11 pm
by Steve
To protect it from wrinkling or tearing, a scroll is rolled up from both ends to form a double cylinder. (This also helps the user unroll the scroll quickly.) The scroll is placed in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood. Most scroll cases are inscribed with magic symbols which often identify the owner or the spells stored on the scrolls inside. The symbols often hide magic traps.
Consider that each 10 scrolls—whether you want them to be individual or written to the same scroll—need a case.
The case has weight.
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:22 pm
by niapet
Steve wrote:To protect it from wrinkling or tearing, a scroll is rolled up from both ends to form a double cylinder. (This also helps the user unroll the scroll quickly.) The scroll is placed in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood. Most scroll cases are inscribed with magic symbols which often identify the owner or the spells stored on the scrolls inside. The symbols often hide magic traps.
Consider that each 10 scrolls—whether you want them to be individual or written to the same scroll—need a case.
The case has weight.
Oh no you dont! I don't have to add weight of a scroll case if I don't get a scroll case!
P.S. Elspeth folds her scrolls and keeps them in her pack under her second pair of socks.
Edit: Oh right also, if we are bringing PnP into this, I can have like 10 spells on each scroll....
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:25 pm
by Young Werther
Eh, if it was me I'd keep my scrolls in a lead container to be on the safe side. Be interesting if a scriptar could change the weight lower than .1 though.
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:27 pm
by Hawke
I am fine with scrolls weighing in at something.
I would be ok with potions weighing .3 each (those are giants swigs you gotta take plus the glass container they are in).
I am just glad my spellbook doesn't weight what it should be weighing.
I do wish arrows, bolts, bullets all had weight, but I get the why...but still.
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:34 pm
by niapet
Hawke wrote:I am fine with scrolls weighing in at something.
I would be ok with potions weighing .3 each (those are giants swigs you gotta take plus the glass container they are in).
I am just glad my spellbook doesn't weight what it should be weighing.
I do wish arrows, bolts, bullets all had weight, but I get the why...but still.
Oh right fair point.. if arrows dont have weight, scrolls should not either! Scrolls are my arrows!
What if Wizards could get a scroll case? Like only wizards, or maybe anyone that has scribe scroll? Maybe an Item that only people with scribe scroll can have?
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:40 pm
by Aspect of Sorrow
6 ounce / 177mL vial will net glass approximation at 30 grams, so a 0.3 lb representation per 6 ounce flask makes sense. It also prevents just utter spamming of the products like there's no end to an arcanist's strength. 6Str (60lbs) weight of a caster with gear, two sets of bows, four rings, lantern, two swords, amulet, helmet, lands one of my arcanists at 32 of 60 lbs. If I have 8 lbs of scrolls to dodge encumbrance, that's 80 spells that can be flung. 49 spell slots at 25 int + 80 scrolls for 129 effective spells to field before rest or repurchase? Nah, keep the 0.1 weight and invest in duskwood products.
If you're having a problem with scrolls use a pack horse.
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:09 pm
by Tsidkenu
OPs request is flawed by the assumption that scrolls are made of paper. They're made of parchment, which is a highly manufactured form of animal skin. Its weight is subsequently heavier
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:13 pm
by niapet
Tsidkenu wrote:OPs request is flawed by the assumption that scrolls are made of paper. They're made of parchment, which is a highly manufactured form of animal skin. Its weight is subsequently heavier
Maybe yours are made of parchment, mine are on paper, not that there is a significant weight difference anyway. Plus mine are made on extra thin paper, no reason to waste expensive high weight paper on an expendable resource.
Elspeth is a vegetarian and would never use parchment for anything.
Edit: Hemp paper.. Elspeth's scrolls are on hemp paper. Always buy scrolls from Elspeth your green source for scrolls, and other scribing services!
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:17 pm
by Aspect of Sorrow
Buy a horse.
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:19 pm
by Steve
A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8 1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 1/2 inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. A scroll has AC 9, 1 hit point, hardness 0, and a break DC of 8.
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:25 pm
by niapet
Steve wrote:A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8 1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 1/2 inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. A scroll has AC 9, 1 hit point, hardness 0, and a break DC of 8.
You do realize computer printer paper is considered "heavy" paper right? Light paper is like news print...
Anyway why do these discussions always degenerate into these silly real world discussions? It was a simple mechanics request. My sword also says it weighs 8 lbs. That's absurd it should weigh like 5 lbs max... Lots of thing have unrealistic weights.. we already discussed the arrows having no weight.
If Arrows can have zero weight for the convenience for the archer, and gold can have no weight for the convenience of everyone, why cant paper have zero weight for the convenience of the wizard?
P.S. Since we seem so NEED to talk real world weights. I just weighed a sheet of heavy duty paper that meets the above mentioned dimensions. It weighed just under 5 grams. Thus ten sheets weigh less than 2 ounces.. So it takes roughly 90 scrolls to make 1 lb. Case closed.
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:30 pm
by Hawke
I think it comes down to carrying a stack 99 scrolls of Enervation or Greater Missile.
Wizards do not tend to rely on scrolls. They have a few as back up. 10 scrolls equals 1lb. I am not seeing the issue.
Again, I wish potions weighed in at .3 but I can wish in one hand.
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:33 pm
by Steve
I am not talking RL weights. I am quoting from D&D source books.
Re: Scrolls, They are WAY too heavy...
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:38 pm
by niapet
Hawke wrote:I think it comes down to carrying a stack 99 scrolls of Enervation or Greater Missile.
Wizards do not tend to rely on scrolls. They have a few as back up. 10 scrolls equals 1lb. I am not seeing the issue.
Again, I wish potions weighed in at .3 but I can wish in one hand.
I get you don't see the issue. Maybe some wizards don't rely on scrolls, great, some do... I have like 30 lbs of scrolls on my character. I uses scrolls a LOT. It is one of the neat things about being a wizard, I can have a spell ready for anything.
99 scrolls of greater missile storm is not something that cant currently be done. It would only weigh 10 lbs right?? So all the current weight accomplishes is making it so a STR warrior, with UMD, is MORE likely to carry 99 scrolls of missile storm than a wizard. Right?