Healer: cleric or FS?

[Kobamw]

Hello everyone!

I am thinking about making a healer build. I made a little research and read very often that FS makes better healer than cleric. Well, I know that FS is very powerful, but I thought it was more like for bashing enemies' skulls The main FS goodies that come to my mind are: weapon focus/specialization, DR and hastes.

So, if one wanted to build a less combat oriented cleric with priorities of: healing -> buffs -> combat, would it make sense to go for Favored Soul? I actually read a very interesting thread about healing pacifist and noone mentioned FS, only cleric

[Tsidkenu]

It can go either way here. Cleric has the obvious advantage that you can load your spellbook full of buffs and other useful spells to assist your allies and spontaneously convert your prayers to healing as you need them. The only healing spells you ever need to memorise as a good/neutral aligned cleric are Heal, Regeneration, Greater Restoration & Mass Heal. Everything else you can acquire from spontaneous conversion of other memorised spells.

A favoured soul, however, has more casts per day of their magic. You would have to be willing to trade versatility for singular focus on healing, given how many of your known spells you will have to dedicate to healing magic. Favoured Souls cannot spontaneously convert their spells to healing so you will need to have one allotted Known Spell per spell level as a healing variant, but they can cast their spells more often than a cleric can, in addition to their general defensive strengths from their natural class features (Energy Resistance, Damage Reduction 10/[cold iron or silver], all High saves).

Taking a dabble in Hierophant for Faith Healing (double dice heals & double 6th level Heal) is what tips it over towards cleric in my opinion. Favoured Souls cannot qualify for Hierophant so a cleric with both the Healing domain and Faith Healing from Hierophant will be superior to any favoured soul by quality rather than quantity of their healing. Go full wisdom, max your heal skill and you will not only be a great battlefield medic, you will have massive DC heals to use offensively against undead.

[illithid]

It would be nice if the empowered healing from healing domain worked on spontaneous casting, which would further push clerics in front of FS in this case.

Blood of the Martyr is still the most powerful healing spell but it requires some unique builds to optimise it

[Sun Wukong]

If you really want to be best at healing, you need decently high strength and maximised Heal skill and carry several stacks of healing kits with you.

Anyhow, build wise I would go for a wisdom based Monk 3/Cleric 7/Sacred Fist 10/Hierophant 10. You are literally punished if you hold onto a weapon. Now, it can pack a punch, I admit, but it can also act as a healer. With no investment in the Parry Skill, and the high AC this build is capable of getting means that you could just refuse to fight back. Then turn off Parry mode every now and then so that you can apply a healing spell or two, or just spam healing kits.

Another thing to consider is a cleric with the Protection domain. Just by having 30 levels of cleric you will have DC 40 Sanctuary spell. Increase your charisma modifier, and the DC goes up from there.

[TeoDeathDealer]

I once did a very unique healer that was really fun to play. A gnome 27 cleric/3 NW9. Maxed out con to gain over 600 hp. Use Guarding the Lord (better than shield other), extended regen, and spamming heals on your favorite front line meat shields. Build below.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?212715

[Kobamw]

Thank you all!

Taking a dabble in Hierophant for Faith Healing (double dice heals & double 6th level Heal) is what tips it over towards cleric in my opinion. Favoured Souls cannot qualify for Hierophant so a cleric with both the Healing domain and Faith Healing from Hierophant will be superior to any favoured soul by quality rather than quantity of their healing. Go full wisdom, max your heal skill and you will not only be a great battlefield medic, you will have massive DC heals to use offensively against undead.

This is actually more or less what I had in mind (and I'm actually playing now on low level).

If you really want to be best at healing, you need decently high strength and maximised Heal skill and carry several stacks of healing kits with you.

Anyhow, build wise I would go for a wisdom based Monk 3/Cleric 7/Sacred Fist 10/Hierophant 10.

Yes, I'm aware of that build - it was discussed at lenght in the "Healing Pacifist" thread I mentioned. It's a very effective build and also interesting from image/RP point of view (just how many heavily armored war priests can you have, right?). I actually don't want to go this way because I would like to use a weapon. Still, on this note - can you still use 2 healing kites per round? I've seen conflicting reports on the forum

I once did a very unique healer that was really fun to play. A gnome 27 cleric/3 NW9. Maxed out con to gain over 600 hp. Use Guarding the Lord (better than shield other), extended regen, and spamming heals on your favorite front line meat shields.

It's indeed very interesting - not what you see everyday day at BGTSCC. Still it looks more like "frontliner I'm taking fire to protect others + healing" type. I'm looking more for powerful healing magic (potentially with lower STR and CON). I'm thinking empowered+faith+domain healing, quickened heal (is it worth the feat?) and augmented cure spells.

[Sun Wukong]

Yeah, you can use two healing kits per round.

Edit: Phantom 4/Cleric 16/Hierophant 10 works too.

[Kobamw]

That is actually very interesting - I forgot Phantom was implemented. Still, non-good alignment does not work well with a healer and my PC specifically.

I am thinking my build would be focused on healing -> summoning -> DC spells -> buffs -> combat (hell, why not? with all those buffs even a low STR and CON cleric can do that ). In terms of classes I would go for cleric 15/thaumaturgist 5/ hierophant 10. I'm considering sacrificing some cleric levels, but I'm not sure if there's something worth taking in their place. Valuable choices would be:
- monk/phantom (discussed above)
- fighter/hospitaler (but combat is not a priority)
- rogue (evasion and sneak attack, but this is again about combat)

Do I miss any class worth taking instead of a couple cleric levels?

[Hendrak]

I had very good experience with a Monk6/Cleric9/Hierophant10/HarperPriest5, Human.

CON is neglectable even as melee cleric (CON 9) , STR min 14, can even get INT to 14 and Able Learner for many Skill Points/max Skills.

Heal would be a nice skill for you and Diplomacy if you go Thaumaturge or even focus on a good Spotter.

The build focuses full on WIS for 28 or 30 final WIS. Some free feats for PrC qualification, crafting feats, SpellFocus or even Ki-Step.
In Epics you take 3 Greater WIS and have space for 2 more epic feats (like Epic Spells, e.g. Epic Heal and Epic Gate)

Uses a Quaterstaff (can buy alchemical silver and cold iron quaterstaff and enhance them with magics, GMW, Align Weapon, Brambles + Flurry of Blows), wears Robes and adds WIS to AC (Monk). Dont go Exp.Weakness , no needs with your buffs.

Empored Visage line as Hierophant can give you +6 to all attributes for a short time as neutral char.

Other alignments are also doable. and other combinations like inserting Thaumaturge, TechSmith, MasterAlchemist(Healing and other potions?), Dreadmaster, MorningLord, WarPriest, Hospitaler.

Torm and Ilmater offer both Strength and Healing Domain. Both Domain got extra spells with the last update!

If you go Phantom instead of Monk (losing Evasion and maybe Imp.Knockdown) you can even get Darkfire Disciple as 4th class.

Overall these combinations are very strong.

BTW: Harper Priest can get Eldath's Soothing Pool, another unique "Heal" effect.

[Sun Wukong]

Monk 4/Cleric 11/Thaumaturge 5/Hierophant 10? Caster level of 32 with Practised Spellcaster and Hierophant Spell Power II.

Cleric 6/Thaumaturge 5/Hospitaler 9/Hierophant 10? If you take Hospitaler level 5 and 9 in the epics, you can spend those two feats on Great Wisdom. The level one bonus feat can get your Tower Shield Proficiency. You can go for Cleric 6/Thaumaturge 5/Hospitaler 4/Hierophant 5 pre-epic. And as above, with Practised Spellcaster and Hierophant Spell Power II, you are looking at caster level of 32.

[mrm3ntalist]

Like most here said already, cleric is the best option between the two, as far as healing is concerned.

[Kobamw]

CON is neglectable even as melee cleric (CON 9)

How so? Wouldn't it make sense to spend 1 ability point at character creation to get 1HP per level? And if not, wouldn't it be better to reduce it to 8 and spend 1 extra point elsewhere?

BTW: Harper Priest can get Eldath's Soothing Pool, another unique "Heal" effect.

I analysed Harper Priest and I think it makes sense to take that PRC only in specific specialized cases. For the build I have in mind I would need to spend both Greater Boons for Animal Companion and Turn Undead progression. As a result, I would get Healing Pool and 3 Lesser Boons at the cost of 2 feats - it seems to me it's not the best bargain in store.

Monk 4/Cleric 11/Thaumaturge 5/Hierophant 10? Caster level of 32 with Practised Spellcaster and Hierophant Spell Power II.

Yes, the more I think about it, the more monk seems as the best option to add to a healer build (to be able to carry more kits). I am inclined not to do it, however, as my little contribution to reduce the number of people on the server who are able to punch heavily armoured opponents with their fists I seem to be tripping on monks wherever I go and I feel that they should be played only with strong RP/geographical (Kara-Tur) or religious (Ilmater) background.

If you take Hospitaler level 5 and 9 in the epics, you can spend those two feats on Great Wisdom.

That’s very tempting with 2 great wisdom feats. However, I would lose several caster levels for combat feats. I’m not sure it would be worth it in a healer/summoner/DC spell build. Although I agree, with such low requirements and so high benefits Hospitaler seems like a must-have for any fighting cleric.

[Sun Wukong]

How so? Wouldn't it make sense to spend 1 ability point at character creation to get 1HP per level? And if not, wouldn't it be better to reduce it to 8 and spend 1 extra point elsewhere?

There is a belt you can buy that comes with +3 STR and CON. Put it on, and you have no need to buff yourself with Bear's Endurance. And generally speaking, spells like Stone Body and Regenerate mean that you will not actually go down all that easily.

Yes, the more I think about it, the more monk seems as the best option to add to a healer build (to be able to carry more kits). I am inclined not to do it, however, as my little contribution to reduce the number of people on the server who are able to punch heavily armoured opponents with their fists I seem to be tripping on monks wherever I go and I feel that they should be played only with strong RP/geographical (Kara-Tur) or religious (Ilmater) background.

Just because you have monk levels doesn't mean you need to go around punching people. Just grab a staff or something. Actually, you do not even need to use Flurry of Blow weapons. And anyhow, if you play a human, Phantom 4/Cleric 11/Thaumaturge 5/Hierophant 10 is also an option.

That’s very tempting with 2 great wisdom feats. However, I would lose several caster levels for combat feats. I’m not sure it would be worth it in a healer/summoner/DC spell build. Although I agree, with such low requirements and so high benefits Hospitaler seems like a must-have for any fighting cleric.

You actually lose no caster levels with the 'Cleric 6/Thaumaturge 5/Hospitaler 9/Hierophant 10' build as long as you grab Practised Spell Caster (Cleric) feat. While Hospitaler doesn't have spell casting progression at levels 1, 3, 5, and 7, the PSC feat grants you +4 caster levels, and since your other classes offer spell casting progression... You will end up at caster level of 30. 32, if you get Hierophant Spell Power I and II.

Basically, you lose as many caster levels as the previously mentioned:
Monk 4/Cleric 11/Thaumaturge 5/Hierophant 10

Which is a loss of no caster levels, as long as you take the PSC (Cleric) feat.

[Kobamw]

You actually lose no caster levels with the 'Cleric 6/Thaumaturge 5/Hospitaler 9/Hierophant 10' build as long as you grab Practised Spell Caster (Cleric) feat.

Basically, you lose as many caster levels as the previously mentioned:
Monk 4/Cleric 11/Thaumaturge 5/Hierophant 10

That is true, but it would lose 1 DC compared to Cleric/Thaumaturge/Hierophant with PSC feat - I always understood Hiero loses 1 caster level, so taking PSC is allowed under BGTSCC rules (and I planned on taking the feat).

[Tsidkenu]

Hierophant is a 10/10 spellcasting PRC.