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 Post subject: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:19 am 
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This has been discussed before, but i cannot stop thinking about it. Bloodlines to sorcs for a boost to RP and individuality would be awesome. obviously this could be taken too far with bonuses everywhere to the moon, but i dont think that is necessary at all. a single feat or line of sequential feats that just provide some give and take to the class for your RP purposes would be so fun.

i had the idea that come to me to try to utilize the minor, intermediate and major strengths.

minor: small bonus at level 6
intermediate: med bonus at 12
major: large bonus at level 18

we could go into details about 10 to 20 different sources, but i would imagine them to be that standard fare.

think bloodlines would make playing a sorc way more fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:54 pm 
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We could chain this off the heritage feats.

Sorc 5: Initial Heritage Feat
Sorc 10: Heritage Feat 1
Sorc 15: Heritage Feat 2
Sorc 20: Heritage Feat 3
Sorc 25: Heritage Feat 4
Sorc 30: Final, Special, Feat. This could be something related to the specific heritage that grants an interesting, powerful boost. Something like dragonic heritage giving permanent true seeing and immunity to fear, fiendish heritage giving regeneration and the hellfire's warlock's summoning feat, fey heritage giving extra cold DR (perhaps 5~) and elemental resistances, things like that. They don't have to be these exact bonuses, but this is the general idea I have for it.

-------------

Perhaps give the heritage feats a boost as well, so long as the PC has X/Y sorcerer levels. The boost would have sure to fairly powerful, for two reasons:

1) Taking raw sorcerer levels would otherwise be pretty crappy, and would deny you powerful PRCs
2) Heritage feats are, generally, pretty crappy as well on their own.

Giving boosts to heritage feats and giving free heritage feats as one takes more levels in sorcerer would be good for the flavor of sorcerer and would make taking more sorcerer levels worthwhile (introducing more build diversity).

As well, this might give an incentive for more heritage feats to be created, as well as dragonic heritage to be fleshed out a little more (as it needs some heritage feats attached to it).

-----------

Of course, this also needs a developer who is both able and desires to take it up!

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:06 am 
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Great ideas, I'd love it. The way it is now, you are shoehorned into mutliclassing heavily as a Sorceror, as you get absolutely zero incentive to stay pure to the class.


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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:33 pm 
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I thought things like the Dragon Disciple class was tapping in to your draconic bloodline?

Prestige classes are supposed to be what changes the dynamic of a class. There are very few classes if any that people will play "Pure" because multiclassing adds those defining features.

Personally i dont see why you need to change the bass class at all. I enjoy playing my sorc for different reasons to playing my wizard. They both have their ups and downs. but i dont see one as better than the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:56 am 
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Hmm, werent bloodlines included in Rasaels big spell update? maybe there are some nice ideas for bloodlines.


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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:55 pm 
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something that could add some flavor to the class without delivering too much additional mechanical power.

let me give an example of something to consider

minor bloodline silver dragon
Req: LG,LN,NG align

Level 1: -1 Cha (an unnatural appearance is reflected in minor details on the person)
level 3: choice of 1) Darkvision 60', Skill focus spot and search or skill focus lore history and arcana.
Level 6: choice of 1) +1 str, +1 Con, +1 Nat AC or +1 ST

intermediate bloodline in silver dragon
Req: LG,LN,NG align
Level 1: -2 Dex, -5% movement speed (changes in the physiology of the character make it difficult for the character to move well.)
level 7: choice of 1) +1 Str, +1 Con or +1 Cha
Level 9: choice of 1) +1 Nat AC, +1 ST, +1 AB and Dmg to any weapon
Level 12: choice of 1) DR Cold 10, +10% Movement speed or Paralysis Immunity

Major bloodline in silver dragon
Req LG,LN,NG
Level 1: -1 wis, -2 Dex, No weapon proficiency.
Level 3: Normal weapon proficiency returned. No spell progression in class
Level 7: No spell progression
Level 10: No spell progression
Level 13: choice of 2) +1 Str, +1 Con, +1 Cha
Level 14: choice of 1) skill focus lore history and arcana, skill focus spot and search
Level 16: +5% movement speed + choice of 1) +1 Nat AC, +1 ST, +1 AB and Damage
Level 18: Cold Immunity + choice of 1) SLA: Trueseeing, Polymorph or Orb of Cold at Sorc CL 1/day

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:40 pm 
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Again it just seems like another way to say Dragon Disciple. The whole point of the class is tapping in to draconic blood..

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:35 am 
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Wolfrayne wrote:
Again it just seems like another way to say Dragon Disciple. The whole point of the class is tapping in to draconic blood..


Sorcerers can be more then just draconic bloodline, They have a number of options.

Personally i believe sorcerers are a bit dull as it stands, almost no skill options, no class abilities and a main stat that can provide nothing but bluff and DCs for them without multiclassing. Mind you i would likely do bloodlines as the sorcerers kits rather then just free feats.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:46 pm 
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Wolfrayne wrote:
Again it just seems like another way to say Dragon Disciple. The whole point of the class is tapping in to draconic blood..

^He's right, though. While the suggestion is certainly interesting, as it is written up in example there the progression is basically a different take on dragon disciple, which is already bringing you to the half-dragon template.

It's in a prestige class already, in regards to dragons. You having a bloodline with magical creature background is what makes you a sorcerer in the first place.

A sorcerer kit, though would be something interesting. However, not sure how to change it so that it's not "Super Sorcerer" and always a better pick than standard sorcerer progression. Feats could make more sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:39 pm 
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the dragon example was used as dragon would likely be a popular choice. but there could be many be used with unique qualities.

abyssal: SLA to summon a demon subtype. gain a DR x/cold iron. resistance to electricity.

celestial: bonus spell heal, SLA tongues spell, aura of fear

elemental: unlimited lesser orb spell. elemental resistance.

fey, hag, infernal, orc, rakshasa, shapechange, and more


and in order to balance the power gained. then power is subtracted from the stock sorc class or your character sheet. or feats are needed and levels required could be another.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:29 pm 
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What part of D&D 3.X specifies that this idea is a thing? (I'm not sure, but this sounds more like a Pathfinder thing than a D&D thing.) How can we, in good conscience, be in line with lore, if we don't consider that?

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:45 pm 
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3.X has heritage feats, and spells, and PRCs.

For example Sorcerers cast the spell Dragon Breath at +1 caster level.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:21 pm 
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Sun Wukong wrote:
3.X has heritage feats, and spells, and PRCs.

For example Sorcerers cast the spell Dragon Breath at +1 caster level.
Ah, yes... I found a compilation of them.
https://dndtools.net/feats/categories/h ... _size=1000

Though, to be honest, some of these are NOT that fantastic, as far as feats go, imho. And others are a bit overpowered.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:02 pm 
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samb123 wrote:
Though, to be honest, some of these are NOT that fantastic, as far as feats go, imho. And others are a bit overpowered.


agree. it might be cool to have the feats tiered. the first tier would open up the next and the next. in the end the final tier feat would be something very good. having multiple selections in each tier allows customization.

another idea might be to have the feats be all about the same power level and all available. but get better the more feats you purchase in the same heritage. might clutter up the feat list a bit though. in this option you might be just as likely to build a heritage sorc as you would sorc build that is current now.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:58 am 
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I mean, it sounds cool, but a lot of builds are already feat-heavy.

I think the following questions need to be asked:
1. What does this add, in terms of improved gameplay and potential RP opportunities?
2. Who would use this?
3. Is it necessary?

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Last edited by samb123 on Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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