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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:50 pm 
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I will ask for a QC character, if there is vast interest behind this. Then, what is already evident to everyone experienced enough after I have given the numbers above (AC, HP, wards, offensive spells, key feats...what more can a long-timer need?!?) will be clear to you too.


See how easy that was?

The above helps others. Just saying you can do it and others can't, is not helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Steve wrote:
If you want to level up a Sorcerer and take me IG and show me what you're saying in just words, I'll meet you there! Snarfy can bring the cheez pops and mountain dew.


Invoker wrote:
I will ask for a QC character, if there is vast interest behind this. Then, what is already evident to everyone experienced enough after I have given the numbers above (AC, HP, wards, offensive spells, key feats...what more can a long-timer need?!?) will be clear to you too.


Heck, I'd be willing to volunteer my sorcerer for Invoker to log on and let him start steam-rolling any zone Steve can throw at him(with an RP build, no less)... after he takes 5 minutes to learn my toon, of course :lol:

*goes to find some cheeze pops and mountain dew anyways, because he knows how this will turn out* :dance:


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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Snarfy wrote:
Steve wrote:
If you want to level up a Sorcerer and take me IG and show me what you're saying in just words, I'll meet you there! Snarfy can bring the cheez pops and mountain dew.


Invoker wrote:
I will ask for a QC character, if there is vast interest behind this. Then, what is already evident to everyone experienced enough after I have given the numbers above (AC, HP, wards, offensive spells, key feats...what more can a long-timer need?!?) will be clear to you too.


Heck, I'd be willing to volunteer my sorcerer for Invoker to log on and let him start steam-rolling any zone Steve can throw at him(with an RP build, no less)... after he takes 5 minutes to learn my toon, of course :lol:

*goes to find some cheeze pops and mountain dew anyways, because he knows how this will turn out* :dance:


Anytime.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:40 pm 
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Steve wrote:
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If you are a good enough player, you don't need screenshots for something so simple.


Invoker, you undoubtedly have experience with this game and others, but you’re still all words.

Which is why I giggle when I see you passively insult other players about their skills and experience (or lack there of). Cause instead of these layered slights you shoot off with regularity, you could just actually show some factual information without editorializing it, and more than prove your point, forgoing the whole L2P noob attitude.

That said, L2P noob is an actual thing, just as player skill is a thing (which is sadly often meta-used over Play your Sheet Role-play). But it is one thing to say L2P noob with only words or anecdotes versus showing in as factual a manner as possible, how it IS possible.

Like, for example, M3nt’s numerous screenshots proving the mechanics of certain builds (a la naked STR bard).

I’d be the first one to line up and say “you are righter than rain”...if you actually proved it.


IF you think his claim is dubious roll up a sorc try it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:04 am 
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People who play commoners, random builds, players that are new, etc.. as well as expert players playing expert builds.. both groups are outliers.

Invoker...I love ya, man, but you are an outlier. No one should balance game play on the weakest or strongest, but instead balance for the tallest points on the bell curve. You can't expect 80% of the players/builds to have the same experience that you have. I know you are good at this game and tend to think everyone should be, but they just aren't and probably won't ever be. It doesn't make them (or you) wrong, you all just have a different experience and vantage point.

For everyone, lets remember that this is a topic about bloodlines, their possible design and/or the need and desire for them. I would hate to see this devolve into a 'sword' measuring contest among gamer homies. We definitely don't need any double dog dares to kill a boss with a sorcerer. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:09 am 
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Based on my earlier suggestion, you mostly got +1DCs based on the bloodline. Those could be just free Spell Focus feats, Enchantment for Fey, Evocation for Fiendish, and so on.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:35 am 
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Planehopper wrote:
Invoker...I love ya, man, but you are an outlier. No one should balance game play on the weakest or strongest, but instead balance for the tallest points on the bell curve. You can't expect 80% of the players/builds to have the same experience that you have. I know you are good at this game and tend to think everyone should be, but they just aren't and probably won't ever be. It doesn't make them (or you) wrong, you all just have a different experience and vantage point.


Since this is not a competitive game (quite the opposite, in fact), your approach makes a world of sense. But I didn't suggest otherwise, in the thread.

Aaron's request was for options, and flavor. If anything, this is about finding something attractive enough for Sorcerer, and thus worth taking/tempting RP-wise, but still inferior to the top multiclassing options (which are overpoweringly strong, so not a challenge).

I think the idea is to find something either good enough, or different enough that it can be worth playing (and thus, developing). It has to require more pure Sorcerer levels, and offer something different than the PrCs around (because nothing similar can compete with them on what they offer, and still remain balanced).

Aaron's and Sun's ideas are interesting, but I am a bit concerned about the feat-heavy investment. Sorcerer does not have many feats to "waste", and pure Sorcerer will certainly want CE/ICE already, plus at the very least 3 metamagic feats.

Perhaps a good way to go would be bloodlines that grant metamagic feats AND other benefits (Skill bonuses + Metamagic in one single feat, for instance). That would probably be a different path, worth exploring.

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodlines
Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:26 am 
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i feel like you are right on invoker.

perhaps some of the bloodlines could give an AC boost depending upon how many are stacked up. like gold dragon, rakshasa, or orc bloodline. that unlike fey, fiend and devils who get a DR, this amount can be +1 and then an addition 1 every three feats. that would max it at 3 or 4 (on 6/9 feats). not as much as ICE but doesnt cost AB and ICE can be taken still if you want to spend epic feats on it.

this is why i like the idea.. if you want just a little bloodline you get just a little. if you want a lot you get a lot. we could probably work through a few builds to get PM/BM/FM in there. likely want some AS. and even a few might try to fit some AM. though feats will make some of these combos hard.

but if you want all that, then the regular sorc is still there as it always was.

additional DC's is a nice idea.. perhaps even something like an SLA 1/d of a few of the levels (2,4,6,8?) upon choosing in a specific school/type.

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