Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

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electric mayhem
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Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by electric mayhem » Sun May 13, 2018 10:05 pm

In the interests of adding 'usable' flavour and variety to monk builds.

Would it be possible, and appropriate, to create a feat, or modify Intuitive attack, to add a Monk's wisdom bonus to their damage when wielding a quarterstaff?

But not apply when using fists (they already get enough damage on fists).

Currently monks base dmg @ lvl 30 using fists is a 3d10 (up to 30).
If using a staff it is 2d4 (up to 8).

All bonuses above this base damage is equally in play and available to both Fists and Staff users.
i.e. +4 EB and 1d4 Elemental on Gloves (Fists) is equally available on Staves too.

Also note that fisters get the Adamantium feat to bypass DR. Whereas stave users do not. I'm not advocating for this to change though.

My argument is that mechanically in this game, monks (players) will seldom ever be primarily staff wielders due to the large handicap they are encumbered with by comparison.

In the interests of variety, could we look at improving the option for staff wielding monks please?


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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by chad878262 » Sun May 13, 2018 10:18 pm

Quarter staff gives double strength bonus which can work well for STR based monk/ weapon master builds. F12/M11/WM7 is a thing. AC is lower, but damage is solid and they get 8 APR, 3 at highest bab vs 7 on a first monk. Finally, there are quarters staffs can haveon hit properties with other bonuses whereas the only gloves I've ever seen with on hit properties are relatively weak. QS monk isn't as good overall, but does have strengths.
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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by electric mayhem » Sun May 13, 2018 10:23 pm

If you're building a STR build... that's a STR build and Wis barely gets a look in.

If you're building a WIS build... my post still stands.

This is about WIS builds, allowing them to use staves a bit better.

At best, they're looking at a bonus of 8-12 extra damage, which will bring them inline with fists. Depending upon modifier.
But they still lose Adamantium and Deflect.

It's not like we're overpowering them by doing this.


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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by Born2BeWild » Sun May 13, 2018 10:29 pm

1,5xStr and 9 attacks(6 base from 26 bab and 3 from flurry) you mean. With wis to damage you can build something like Spirit shaman/monk/hiero(or hospitaller) on gray orc and get +10 damage from wis with buffs without any loss.

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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by electric mayhem » Sun May 13, 2018 10:33 pm

Maybe I didn't make it clear.

This is to couple with Intuitive attack.

Intuitive attack requires 2/3 Monk levels minimum.

And Wis builds typically have 0 to at best +2 str modifier.


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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by Hammer_Song » Mon May 14, 2018 2:35 am

electric mayhem wrote:fisters
hehehe
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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by AlfarinIcebreaker » Mon May 14, 2018 8:50 am

Good idea, +1 from me.

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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by chambordini » Mon May 14, 2018 9:36 am

I'd not mind seeing that, but it'd hardly be a strong character as a staff user with 20 plus monk levels. Also the palm and ki strike feats would still only be for fist attacks. There's just so much more for unarmed monks. That you have to spend a feat to use stunning fist with staves, a wonkier version with stand-in actors, from a balance perspective is rather baffling. Certainly not encouraging staff use.


As far as the str staff monk users, I think the best one I came up with was a fighter 12/monk 6/wm7/breach gnome 5, sacrificing greater flurry for some much needed AC. But from memory we're still talking about very low AC. Can't remember but probably less than 40 before umd.

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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by electric mayhem » Mon May 14, 2018 9:52 am

That's my point.... we've backed anyone that wants to play a monk... a pure monk... into a corner.
"Though shall use fists, if one wants to perform amicably on the server"

But it's an RP game... right... right? "hello Steve!"


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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by Theodore01 » Mon May 14, 2018 10:41 am

electric mayhem wrote:And Wis builds typically have 0 to at best +2 str modifier.
No, just no :shock:


Having played 2 odd staff monk builds, i can say they are doing fine.
As Fiery fist and blazing aura add damage to a staff, that alone makes staff damage quite good. (compared to most non-monk weapons)

Staff Monk20/DC6/F4 with Str18/Wis32(+4item)
http://nwn2db.com/build/?289519

Damage with an eb+4 glove/staff:

d20+4+4(sp+mastery)+4(str)=13~32+d10(fire)+d6(fire)=15~48 (x7)
d8 +4+2(sp)+6(str) =13~22+d10(fire)+d6(fire)=15~38 (x7)

With wis to damage it would be
d8 +4+2(sp)+16(wis)=23~30+d10(fire)+d6(fire)=25~46 (x7)


Then we have CI and AS and vampiric staffs also.

There is no need to improve the staff damage for monks further.

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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by Steve » Mon May 14, 2018 10:56 am

I've just been keeping my mouth shut cause you know how my opinion goes over. :roll: 0:)

That said, I've learned how to make a good quality damage giving Wis Monk.
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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by Hendrak » Mon May 14, 2018 2:03 pm

If MotLD kit works it would help a bit with the AC problem.

We need more Monk Kits. The only solution ;D Full 20 Monk levels always need E.Prowess and Exp.Weakness regardless if their Dex is low. That are two precious epic feat slots almost always occupied. Kits like MotLD could help with that. And lore offers so many nice Orders to make kits.

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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by chad878262 » Mon May 14, 2018 2:15 pm

Give Monks too many open epic feats would not really be a good thing. They have some very strong feats they can get and some races can already end up with enough WIS for Blazing Aura and enough DEX to get a bit of self concealment. The need for Epic Prowess/Expose Weakness isn't really true in the case of all monk builds, but the benefits of the feats can't be argued. However, is there really a build out there which qualifies for Expose Weakness and isn't better off for taking it?
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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by electric mayhem » Mon May 14, 2018 8:21 pm

Theodore01 wrote:
electric mayhem wrote:And Wis builds typically have 0 to at best +2 str modifier.
No, just no :shock:
As Fiery fist and blazing aura add damage to a staff, that alone makes staff damage quite good. (compared to most non-monk weapons)

d8 +4+2(sp)+6(str) =13~22+d10(fire)+d6(fire)=15~38 (x7)

With wis to damage it would be
d8 +4+2(sp)+16(wis)=23~30+d10(fire)+d6(fire)=25~46 (x7)
d8 +4 +2(spec'z) + 3 (16 wis) + 6 (18 STR?) = 23 MAX. There fixed it for you.
Try and show your full working out if you are presenting a mathematical argument.

Those putting points into STR will be better off dmg wise all the time due to the 1.5 coding.
This is about allowing WIS mod to be used at a 1x ratio.
So yes, people can trade STR and Wis either way in the mix, but STR will always win out for those building for it.

Yes... fiery fists and blazing work on ALL monk weapons INC fists. That is NOT the point of the argument.

My point is... let's bring the other monk weapon choices a little more in line with Fists.
By adding Wis modifier, even Half or 2/3rds of the modifier to dmg, it'll certainly help.


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Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.

Unread post by Grog » Mon May 14, 2018 10:06 pm

More viable variety for builds is always a good thing imo.

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