BGTSCC Discord BGTSCC IRC

Server Address: game.bgtscc.net
9/96
Last counter update:
2018-08-17 11:44:05



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:05 pm 
Offline
Custom Content
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 6:51 pm
Posts: 635
In the interests of adding 'usable' flavour and variety to monk builds.

Would it be possible, and appropriate, to create a feat, or modify Intuitive attack, to add a Monk's wisdom bonus to their damage when wielding a quarterstaff?

But not apply when using fists (they already get enough damage on fists).

Currently monks base dmg @ lvl 30 using fists is a 3d10 (up to 30).
If using a staff it is 2d4 (up to 8).

All bonuses above this base damage is equally in play and available to both Fists and Staff users.
i.e. +4 EB and 1d4 Elemental on Gloves (Fists) is equally available on Staves too.

Also note that fisters get the Adamantium feat to bypass DR. Whereas stave users do not. I'm not advocating for this to change though.

My argument is that mechanically in this game, monks (players) will seldom ever be primarily staff wielders due to the large handicap they are encumbered with by comparison.

In the interests of variety, could we look at improving the option for staff wielding monks please?

_________________


Adolamin Marblerune - Mage Scholar of Kraak Helzak.
-
Claret - Tethyrian Vintner.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:18 pm 
Offline
Quality Control

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:55 pm
Posts: 7779
Quarter staff gives double strength bonus which can work well for STR based monk/ weapon master builds. F12/M11/WM7 is a thing. AC is lower, but damage is solid and they get 8 APR, 3 at highest bab vs 7 on a first monk. Finally, there are quarters staffs can haveon hit properties with other bonuses whereas the only gloves I've ever seen with on hit properties are relatively weak. QS monk isn't as good overall, but does have strengths.

_________________
Chord Silverstrings - Bard and OSR Squire / Tarent Nefzen - Arcane Wand Merchant and Master Alchemist / Irrace Arkentlar - Drow Adventurer / Finneaus Du'Veil - Gem Merchant and Executive Officer of SCCE

Tarent's Wands and Elixirs

A Wand Crafter's guide to using wands


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:23 pm 
Offline
Custom Content
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 6:51 pm
Posts: 635
If you're building a STR build... that's a STR build and Wis barely gets a look in.

If you're building a WIS build... my post still stands.

This is about WIS builds, allowing them to use staves a bit better.

At best, they're looking at a bonus of 8-12 extra damage, which will bring them inline with fists. Depending upon modifier.
But they still lose Adamantium and Deflect.

It's not like we're overpowering them by doing this.

_________________


Adolamin Marblerune - Mage Scholar of Kraak Helzak.
-
Claret - Tethyrian Vintner.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:10 am
Posts: 39
1,5xStr and 9 attacks(6 base from 26 bab and 3 from flurry) you mean. With wis to damage you can build something like Spirit shaman/monk/hiero(or hospitaller) on gray orc and get +10 damage from wis with buffs without any loss.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:33 pm 
Offline
Custom Content
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 6:51 pm
Posts: 635
Maybe I didn't make it clear.

This is to couple with Intuitive attack.

Intuitive attack requires 2/3 Monk levels minimum.

And Wis builds typically have 0 to at best +2 str modifier.

_________________


Adolamin Marblerune - Mage Scholar of Kraak Helzak.
-
Claret - Tethyrian Vintner.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:43 pm
Posts: 113
electric mayhem wrote:
fisters


hehehe

_________________
Relnor Ironfaar - Axe Master of Clan Ironfaar
Background - https://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=55066


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:20 am
Posts: 416
Location: King's Landing
Good idea, +1 from me.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:36 am 
Offline
Lead Gnome
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:54 am
Posts: 2289
Location: Songfarla
I'd not mind seeing that, but it'd hardly be a strong character as a staff user with 20 plus monk levels. Also the palm and ki strike feats would still only be for fist attacks. There's just so much more for unarmed monks. That you have to spend a feat to use stunning fist with staves, a wonkier version with stand-in actors, from a balance perspective is rather baffling. Certainly not encouraging staff use.


As far as the str staff monk users, I think the best one I came up with was a fighter 12/monk 6/wm7/breach gnome 5, sacrificing greater flurry for some much needed AC. But from memory we're still talking about very low AC. Can't remember but probably less than 40 before umd.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:52 am 
Offline
Custom Content
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 6:51 pm
Posts: 635
That's my point.... we've backed anyone that wants to play a monk... a pure monk... into a corner.
"Though shall use fists, if one wants to perform amicably on the server"

But it's an RP game... right... right? "hello Steve!"

_________________


Adolamin Marblerune - Mage Scholar of Kraak Helzak.
-
Claret - Tethyrian Vintner.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:41 am 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:32 pm
Posts: 1779
electric mayhem wrote:
And Wis builds typically have 0 to at best +2 str modifier.
No, just no :shock:


Having played 2 odd staff monk builds, i can say they are doing fine.
As Fiery fist and blazing aura add damage to a staff, that alone makes staff damage quite good. (compared to most non-monk weapons)

Staff Monk20/DC6/F4 with Str18/Wis32(+4item)
http://nwn2db.com/build/?289519

Damage with an eb+4 glove/staff:

d20+4+4(sp+mastery)+4(str)=13~32+d10(fire)+d6(fire)=15~48 (x7)
d8 +4+2(sp)+6(str) =13~22+d10(fire)+d6(fire)=15~38 (x7)

With wis to damage it would be
d8 +4+2(sp)+16(wis)=23~30+d10(fire)+d6(fire)=25~46 (x7)


Then we have CI and AS and vampiric staffs also.

There is no need to improve the staff damage for monks further.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:56 am 
Offline
Recognized Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:42 am
Posts: 4723
Location: Paradise in GMT +1
I've just been keeping my mouth shut cause you know how my opinion goes over. :roll: 0:)

That said, I've learned how to make a good quality damage giving Wis Monk.

_________________
Storybuilding.

|> Hurgon WyrmstoneKraak Helzak Ambassador & Voice of the Deep Mountain
|> Preceptor Phasorin ZauPurification through Fire
|> Henryk Urde — Swords of Justice



Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:51 pm
Posts: 330
If MotLD kit works it would help a bit with the AC problem.

We need more Monk Kits. The only solution ;D Full 20 Monk levels always need E.Prowess and Exp.Weakness regardless if their Dex is low. That are two precious epic feat slots almost always occupied. Kits like MotLD could help with that. And lore offers so many nice Orders to make kits.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:15 pm 
Offline
Quality Control

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:55 pm
Posts: 7779
Give Monks too many open epic feats would not really be a good thing. They have some very strong feats they can get and some races can already end up with enough WIS for Blazing Aura and enough DEX to get a bit of self concealment. The need for Epic Prowess/Expose Weakness isn't really true in the case of all monk builds, but the benefits of the feats can't be argued. However, is there really a build out there which qualifies for Expose Weakness and isn't better off for taking it?

_________________
Chord Silverstrings - Bard and OSR Squire / Tarent Nefzen - Arcane Wand Merchant and Master Alchemist / Irrace Arkentlar - Drow Adventurer / Finneaus Du'Veil - Gem Merchant and Executive Officer of SCCE

Tarent's Wands and Elixirs

A Wand Crafter's guide to using wands


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:21 pm 
Offline
Custom Content
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 6:51 pm
Posts: 635
Theodore01 wrote:
electric mayhem wrote:
And Wis builds typically have 0 to at best +2 str modifier.
No, just no :shock:
As Fiery fist and blazing aura add damage to a staff, that alone makes staff damage quite good. (compared to most non-monk weapons)

d8 +4+2(sp)+6(str) =13~22+d10(fire)+d6(fire)=15~38 (x7)

With wis to damage it would be
d8 +4+2(sp)+16(wis)=23~30+d10(fire)+d6(fire)=25~46 (x7)



d8 +4 +2(spec'z) + 3 (16 wis) + 6 (18 STR?) = 23 MAX. There fixed it for you.
Try and show your full working out if you are presenting a mathematical argument.

Those putting points into STR will be better off dmg wise all the time due to the 1.5 coding.
This is about allowing WIS mod to be used at a 1x ratio.
So yes, people can trade STR and Wis either way in the mix, but STR will always win out for those building for it.

Yes... fiery fists and blazing work on ALL monk weapons INC fists. That is NOT the point of the argument.

My point is... let's bring the other monk weapon choices a little more in line with Fists.
By adding Wis modifier, even Half or 2/3rds of the modifier to dmg, it'll certainly help.

_________________


Adolamin Marblerune - Mage Scholar of Kraak Helzak.
-
Claret - Tethyrian Vintner.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Monk: Wis bonus to Q'staff damage.
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:53 am
Posts: 54
Location: Canada
More viable variety for builds is always a good thing imo.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group