Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Does anyone have a swashbuckler as a main char ( more than 12 levels ) and if so, how it performs?

http://nwn2db.com/build/?274759 <= I got this one. He is at level 9 currently. And no, he has not faced many issues thus far and I do not think he will. His build will get stronger and stronger with each new ability.

But yeah, I cannot test yet if the Insightful Strike/Epic Precision combination actually works.

The main feature of pure swashbuckler is his ability to reduce consitution (and thus the HP pool in general), but it is easily countered by death ward if I am not mistaken, so... Or not?

Not my main. But Drow Swashbuckler Duelist and apart from the abyssmal will saves he performs very well, lvl 25 atm.

While not "main" as having 12 abilities, I do rely heavily on swashbuckler and try to play without using wards unless absolutely necessary and I must say.

Before level 23, when you get Combat Insight/Insightful Strike combo, and after around level 15, this class is a painful to use.

While a rogue can handle the HPs, the immunity to crits/sneak attacks and whatnot by just grabbing a bow, a swashbuckler has no damage (1x int damage and no feats to increase it. Gets turned off by crit immune (bosses) and sneak immune (disproportionate amount of mobs)), (if paired with duelist) uses the damage type that practically everything resists (piercing).

It has no AC unless they dump into dex (and thus lose damage) and multiclass with duelist (and thus be limited to single 1 handed weapons) or a HiPS (and thus require a lot of skill points spent) class. While duelist is an almost guaranteed multiclass due to synergy, it does limit options. A rogue can multiclass with fighter, wear full plate and still get full benefits of the class using Feint.

It has very little in terms of skill points, while requiring much more than a fighter. This is somewhat alleviated wizard style by having intelligence be the main stat, but unlike the rogue who has large skill requirements but balances it with large skill pool, or wizard who has no skill requirements allowing easy customization, most swashbuckler will spend the majority of their points on the same skills with little variation if they want to be remotely competitive (max parry, tumble, bluff).

It has very little in terms of class skills. Thematically, the class should work well with Dread Pirate, and yet Lore (Geography) is a cross-class skill. It also has H/MS as cross-class skills as well, making acquiring HiPS very late game (and you want Shadowdancer for the Evasion).

The Expose Weakness nerf also hinders them. A swashbuckler, lategame, is to be a "debuffer" as was mentioned above. Stack con reduction (which most bosses are immune to, yay), stack AC reduction (Expose Weakness), bluff every now and then and so forth. Maybe have a cross-class into rogue for str reduction as well. Expose Weakness's utility for debuffer gameplay was pretty much eliminated.

This class can't be played as mainline DPS due to needing dex to hit and int for damage, and int for damage, while on paper looks great with 2x int, most things ignore half of it. And it also uses the damage type that most things resist as well (and Duelists need to wield piercing for their damage abilities to work). It works great if you can crit, which is easy with the rapier, but once more - most things ignore critical damage.

This class can't even be played as a tank. A common melee character uses strength for AB, for damage AND for AC (carrying a full plate and tower shield), allowing it to spent points on strength and constitution. A swashbuckler/duelist won't have the constitution to face tank natural 20s, doesn't have the utility of a wizard to use spells to facetank natural 20s, doesn't have Epic Dodge to ignore the first strike, doesn't have Evasion to facetank spells, doesn't have the HP progression to facetank natural 20s.

In essence, looks great on paper but the prevelance of critical hit resistance, stat drain resistance, natural 20s by large amounts of mobs, sneak attack resistance, piercing resistance, bluff resistance makes it even more useless than a wizard that refuses to exploit the AI/play buffbot/gish/dumpstat/summon.

If we had things that piercing damage pierced the DR of (or less that negate piercing damage), it'd be a great boon. Often for handling DR, one has to drop 2d6 points of damage to mitigate things.

Having a rapier that does extra damage: slashing would also be a massive boon. Make it +4 EB with slashing 1 or something like that. If I assume right, it'd deal slashing damage and pierce the DR entirely, while allowing Duelist 2d6 to proc. And honestly - rapiers (depending on definition! Sienkiewicz defines rapiers as any long, straight-edged one handed blade, whereas some define it as "one-handed estoc".) are pretty good cutting weapons. They can't hew as well as longswords, but they more than enough cut deep enough to cripple an arm, maybe even cut it off at thinner sections.

What Hoihe said^
Well written.. very well written.

I have one that's a main, but it's not worth taking past level 7. As everyone mentioned, it's a debuffer.. that can't debuff anything.. so it's a waste of levels..

The int dmg is amazing! My favorite feat in a martial class.

Hoihe's information is out of date, however. Epic Precision, which swashbucklers get at 12, does allow swashbuckler to apply its insightful strike to enemies who are immune to critical hits.

i have a swashy that is not a main as well and agree with most of what Hoihe wrote.

Where i disagree is that i do not think MOST mobs are crit immune to some degree. i can level 1-30 staying inside my CR and never face a crit immune or pierce resistant mob unless it is a rare one off like a shammy mob shaping to a elemental.

so while i would like to see a slash damage type rapier model made i do not NEED it to get there. it would open a few areas to me though.

i do play this toon as a tank, while it works well, it is not anywhere near the top of the list in tanking. it truly does come down to the HPs combined with the natural crits. (it is assumed you are already taking care of the low will save with mob selection and/or positioning.) if perhaps there was a attribute or level feat that could allow better crit defense. that would help a bunch. even if it is something tied to say parry and/or tumble skill to give a % crit immunity.

and i am a broken record on the lore geo not being a class skill is a misfire that should be resolved.

aaron22 wrote:i have a swashy that is not a main as well and agree with most of what Hoihe wrote.

Where i disagree is that i do not think MOST mobs are crit immune to some degree. i can level 1-30 staying inside my CR and never face a crit immune or pierce resistant mob unless it is a rare one off like a shammy mob shaping to a elemental.

so while i would like to see a slash damage type rapier model made i do not NEED it to get there. it would open a few areas to me though.

i do play this toon as a tank, while it works well, it is not anywhere near the top of the list in tanking. it truly does come down to the HPs combined with the natural crits. (it is assumed you are already taking care of the low will save with mob selection and/or positioning.) if perhaps there was a attribute or level feat that could allow better crit defense. that would help a bunch. even if it is something tied to say parry and/or tumble skill to give a % crit immunity.

and i am a broken record on the lore geo not being a class skill is a misfire that should be resolved.

Could even mitigating the natural 20 spam by opening up high-investment Swashbuckler to Epic Dodge, maybe? It'd remove 1 attack from every mob attacking you, and while mobs that attack frequently still remain an issue, it'd be a major help.

Defensive roll at level 12 maybe? It's about equal to rogue's acquisition. The SwB could also mutliclass into shadowdancer and get it without losing anything, but this'd allow keeping it pure swash/duelist.

Or maybe some late swash-buckler only pair of feat when wielding a rapier and a dagger giving some form of anti-nat 20 defense.

Whatever it is, it does need to be late in the build.

Swashbuckler/duelist combo's weakness of nat 20s is eliminated by having spells (if you don't mind walking around looking weird), so gishes don't need it.