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 Post subject: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:06 pm 
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I had started to write a reply to the now taken-down post regarding some explicit harassment RP that took place. As someone whose female PC has been sexually harassed to the point of discomfort twice, and observed another PC be harassed a couple of times, I would really appreciate some clarification on the server rules when it comes to RPing sexual harassment.

The deleted thread contained extremely vulgar language and was not RP at all, but I would also like to point out that RP in which you don't use explicit language can be equally uncomfortable if it goes on for too long, and you don't respect the PC's or the player's requests that it stop.

Incidents like these should be taken to DMs, yes, but I think it's equally important to point out to the community at large what is OK and what is not OK. The player base is comprised of people from many different countries, backgrounds, cultures, and genders, and if you're not someone who experiences sexual harassment regularly in your real life, you might not know how upsetting this kind of thing can be.

There is a way to RP a creep without being vulgar, crass, or overstaying your welcome RP-wise.

I checked the rules recently and I didn't see anything that explicitly addresses sexual harassment, even though ERP itself is against the rules. Maybe some clarification on this issue is warranted. Of course, it's highly possible I completely missed any verbiage regarding this kind of thing.

Perhaps some kind of PVP-esque rule is in order. If you want to harass or otherwise infringe on another character's freedom (like we do in the case of trying to murder or capture them), you should ask OOCly first.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Maecius just posted an update regarding the issue:

https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=823199#p823199

However, I can agree that maybe a discussion about crossing lines in RP - within the server rules - should take place.


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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:19 pm 
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It's important for everyone to understand that the whole point of roleplay is to create an enjoyable experience for all players involved.

I've had my character be the object of harassing behavior and I didn't mind it one bit - because the times it happened, the player involved always contacted me on an OOC level to be like "Hey my character would do this thing, would you be okay with that?" - the opening of that dialog to me as a player is super important and it demonstrates a good faith effort to make sure everyone knows it's just roleplay and something that should be enjoyable for players even when it's something that makes the characters uncomfortable. If the same thing happened out of the blue without me being asked first, I would have been highly uncomfortable.

I've been noticing the recent influx of deliberately harassing RP and it bothers me as a player because even though I am not female and thus have no personal experience being harassed myself, my job involves me regularly working with abuse survivors and I know how traumatic that some things can be at triggering reminders for them. I think it's absolutely important that if someone is going to engage someone in this manner that it be done on terms both parties are okay with. The RP I have seen of this nature, where it's thrown at someone and then the person laughs as a player about how edgy they are being is, IMO, not okay.

RP should always have the number one ground rule of mutual player respect and going out of your way as a player to NOT be a jerk even when your character is.

Nobody knows what will or will not make someone uncomfortable until they ask, and I feel like doing this kind of thing without asking is emphatically not okay.

Nobody knows what someone has dealt with as a person outside the game or how this kind of interaction will make them feel.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:30 pm 
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I am sure I am not the only one who is reassured by the swift action of the Admins making clear that such uncomfortable and abusive RP is not tolerated here.

I also agree with the OP that it is a really good idea to have a frank discourse as a community about the need to ensure those we are rping with are comfortable with the content of RP. Being a considerate player, which we should all aim to be, includes making sure that everyone is comfortable with the tone and language used within RP. An ambivalence towards this, with a desire to push one's content standards on others, is simply a selfish act.

Echoing Winterborne's post, I have seen it said before that this is a collaborative game, and if every party is not having fun, it looses much of its purpose. This is never more relevant than when RPing over highly sensitive issues such as gender related harassment. Especially given the widely varying cultures and individuals that play here.



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Note this is a distinct issue from the much thrown around word consequences so we should not confuse the issue with PVP or conflict. This is about content and what it is appropriate to RP IG.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:39 pm 
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casadechrisso wrote:
Maecius just posted an update regarding the issue:

https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=823199#p823199

However, I can agree that maybe a discussion about crossing lines in RP - within the server rules - should take place.


This is a relief to see, thank you for posting it - and thank you to Maecius and the team for making a decisive statement on this.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 1:05 pm 
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This is a Dungeons and Dragons game.

Now, ERP is one thing, and the players who are into it are usually good at locking themselves away while they do it(thank (do-me)).

As for this other garbage, I can think of a grand total of ZERO legitimate reasons why anyone should subject others, either IC'ly or OOC'ly, to this type of behavior in a setting such as this. Simply stated, there is just no place for this particular variety of harassment here. It's repugnant, and anyone who is "into that" should do themselves a favor and uninstall NWN2. They should probably also slowly dismantle their computer piece by piece... with a hammer, followed by going for a quiet walk outside for a moment of personal contemplative reflection. But, that's just one mans opinion! <:D

Speaking of hammers, I'm thankful that Maecius and Co have dusted off the one they keep in the cupboard for special occasions. I sincerely hope they put it to good use in this case.


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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 1:13 pm 
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I'm glad that there's a firm stance being made against this kind of attitude.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Put me in the "great work, admins" column as well. It's too common for gaming communities to turn a blind eye to this kind of thing and I am thrilled it's not the case here.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 1:39 pm 
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I think it's important to acknowledge that everyone has a different red line when it comes to RP, so it's impossible to make any clear rules for that. Of course, things like the situation earlier are insta-ban situations, no question, but outside of such obvious examples everybody has a different comfort zone. It's also not about behavior towards females only, hell, my own female characters have crossed lines too and had to apologize, it just happens to everyone and nobody's a saint.

I can only say a few things from my perspective, playing female characters, and what I consider annoying might be totally fine with others. In any case, over the years I think I've been in enough situations that I can unapologetically wave the #metoo hashtag, some of that was outright harassment towards my characters, some just the regular, everyday annoyances. I don't have anything against some flirtatious social RP, I've played enough adult games to have learnt by now how babies are made (hey, even tried in RL!), and my characters have surely said a few things that weren't exactly PG-13 either, one even quite a lot.

But what bugs me is a common attitude towards my characters that they're just some kind of bait because they happen to be female. When you run into a new group and the first line you get is yet again some "hello gorgeous!", "Ah, you already recognize my voice *wink wink*" or the like it's not exactly harassment, but a constant annoyance that immediately makes me want to stop roleplaying with them.

There's a reason I avoid the word "toon", because I'd like my "toons" to be treated as characters. When I play them, I live them, total immersion, and it doesn't matter if I'm a straight white guy or a black lesbian girl behind the screen - I feel with them, and if they get harassed or creeped out I get too. Or annoyed. Or whatever. In any case, there is this kind of underlying everyday sexism in roleplay and I feel it, and I sometimes wish my characters would make a valuable addition to an adventuring party not only because of a nice butt, but because they're just good companions.

Also, regarding the recent influx of characters that make crude jokes... I don't really get the point. I think they're not funny, it's simply annoying. Female characters are already getting enough silly comments, no need to make an extra character that specializes on it. What's their goal anyway? If your character's goal is to lose his virginity, make one that knows how to behave and is actually charming, not an (hiney).

THAT SAID, harassment in character, creepy roleplay, mature themes - it's all okay if it's done correctly, like in the example by Winterborne. One of my most intense RP experiences was a near-rape situation a DM put me into, it was honestly the creepiest and most frightening roleplay I've ever had and will never forget - but I did it voluntarily, I always had the option to jump out and say no, and that DM was an absolut expert in doing creepy things the right way.


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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 2:26 pm 
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I don't really want to add more logs to the fire, but I just want to say that I see what y'all are getting at. In my history of playing around here, I mostly roleplayed female characters and I did get borderline harassed IG several times. Though I usually don't care when someone's ICly saying "Hello, beautiful!" to my characters, as depending on their concepts, they can handle themselves or joke it off. I tend to be pretty detached with my IC RP and OOC side of life. However I -did- once feel very disturbed after I noticed the same person getting at my characters all the time. For weeks. That felt creepy as heck. And I'm a man IRL. My experiences with such behaviour likely can't compare with some of those that spoke above me and some of others that are around, though.

But yeah. It happens (though rarely for me now) from time to time. Reason why I play characters with such personalities and quirks as they are right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Snarfy wrote:
This is a Dungeons and Dragons game.

Now, ERP is one thing, and the players who are into it are usually good at locking themselves away while they do it(thank (do-me)).

As for this other garbage, I can think of a grand total of ZERO legitimate reasons why anyone should subject others, either IC'ly or OOC'ly, to this type of behavior in a setting such as this. Simply stated, there is just no place for this particular variety of harassment here. It's repugnant, and anyone who is "into that" should do themselves a favor and uninstall NWN2. They should probably also slowly dismantle their computer piece by piece... with a hammer, followed by going for a quiet walk outside for a moment of personal contemplative reflection. But, that's just one mans opinion! <:D

Speaking of hammers, I'm thankful that Maecius and Co have dusted off the one they keep in the cupboard for special occasions. I sincerely hope they put it to good use in this case.


See, I had a reply all written out, but then I saw this and realized I couldn't put it nearly as succinctly.

But, too, it's also important to recognize that- as Lunchbox said- it doesn't have to be vulgar to be considered harassment, or to make the player on the other side of the screen uncomfortable. I think a simple rule of thumb on this is if you are asked by another player to stop, then do so. And if you are on the receiving end, and someone doesn't respect your request to stop- screencap and report. Harassment has always been taken very seriously by the staff here, so don't be afraid to ask for intervention.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 3:01 pm 
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I'm glad I'm not the only one so badly put off by this.

This wasn't done as an RP avenue, this was done so someone could have a laugh at the expense of others.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 3:34 pm 
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I'd like to go one step further. IC and OOC, please pause to remember that we're all here for fun, and that comments/thoughts that were shown in the original thread definitely should NOT be being sent to people OOC. Just because I may be a female player, does not mean I should have to hear things like how
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I don't have to work for gold/gear because my character is "cute and can just shake her arse in a bar" for it" (and yes, I actually got that in a tell from someone).
.

I am not sure what has happened on the server of late but gracious, it needs to stop. Again, we're all here for fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 3:41 pm 
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What you just said is doubly messed up because it isn't someone saying that to your character, it's someone saying that to YOU, ABOUT your character. Creepy and loses all guise of it simply being abrasive RP because of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Harassment RP
Unread postPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 3:47 pm 
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^

That kind of thing happens A LOT.

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