Extended Rage

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Akroma666
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Extended Rage

Unread post by Akroma666 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:40 pm

Is there a way we can allow these feats to stack? So if bear warrior gives you Extended rage I or II, and battle rager gives you extended rage I, can we make these feats naturally progress equaling a total of extended rage III?

As of now, they do not stack and bring nothing to the character.. can we code them to stack? Is it even possible? And would people want to see them stack?
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Valefort
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Valefort » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:02 pm

Nope
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Akroma666
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Akroma666 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:22 pm

Valefort wrote:Nope
Care to elaborate?

Is that a nope as in, no way to code them stacking?
Akurion Stormedge - "The Storm"
Druegar Grizzleclaw - The Mountain Ruin Tsar
Akroma Thuul - The Creepy Enchanter
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Valefort
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Valefort » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:46 pm

The feats gained through PRCs are defined in a static 2da file so to make them all stack I would have to differentiate them all and then count those when it matters while also taking care of making them not stack with extend rage feat through items.

It's not impossible but long (got to give and take feats retroactively for all the existing builds), not to mention it might not even be desired (barbarians can not be considered weak anymore) so consider that no a "postponed till better years". Last but not least it would also open the door to other pnp considerations such as gaining improved uncanny dodge when gaining uncanny dodge twice and so on.

Priorities are there : viewtopic.php?f=4&t=62280
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Sun Wukong
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Sun Wukong » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:18 pm

Valefort wrote:The feats gained through PRCs are defined in a static 2da file so to make them all stack I would have to differentiate them all and then count those when it matters while also taking care of making them not stack with extend rage feat through items.
Why not a bonus feat and from a list of bonus feats that only contains Extend Rage I, II, III, IV, and V?
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Akroma666
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Akroma666 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:36 pm

Sun Wukong wrote:Why not a bonus feat and from a list of bonus feats that only contains Extend Rage I, II, III, IV, and V?
^this is genius.. again, is it something we want? I think it would be amazing, but it would not effect my build in the slightest. Just something I noticed when making a friend a dwarven rager bear warrior build.
Akurion Stormedge - "The Storm"
Druegar Grizzleclaw - The Mountain Ruin Tsar
Akroma Thuul - The Creepy Enchanter
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Valefort
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Valefort » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:07 pm

It would be a good idea if we started from scratch but that's not the case, also there might be barbarian PRCs in the future who give bonus feats other than extend rage feats and there's only one list for bonus feats per PRC.
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mrm3ntalist
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by mrm3ntalist » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:15 pm

We can all agree that the class that give rage have been improved a lot. There is no reason to do anymore. There will always be ideas that will empower classes. The thing we need to ask is if it is needed and in this case it is not.
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Sun Wukong » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:26 pm

Valefort wrote:It would be a good idea if we started from scratch but that's not the case, also there might be barbarian PRCs in the future who give bonus feats other than extend rage feats and there's only one list for bonus feats per PRC.
Do those hypothetical PRCs have to have Extend Rage as their class feature?
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Akroma666
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Akroma666 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:32 pm

mrm3ntalist wrote:We can all agree that the class that give rage have been improved a lot. There is no reason to do anymore. There will always be ideas that will empower classes. The thing we need to ask is if it is needed and in this case it is not.
Well yeah.. I just thought it was a good idea.. lol.
Akurion Stormedge - "The Storm"
Druegar Grizzleclaw - The Mountain Ruin Tsar
Akroma Thuul - The Creepy Enchanter
Liliana Duskblade - The B*tch of Bane

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chambordini
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by chambordini » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:01 am

To me it'd be mostly a "quality of life" fix, it'll really only be the newbies that take bear warrior or battlerager and somehow end up with a duplicate feat granted by the PRCs.


There's a significant amount of mechanics new players have to learn, it can be fun for some but for others it can be a bit like a trap that forces them to RCR.

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Akroma666
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Akroma666 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:17 am

chambordini wrote:To me it'd be mostly a "quality of life" fix, it'll really only be the newbies that take bear warrior or battlerager and somehow end up with a duplicate feat granted by the PRCs.


There's a significant amount of mechanics new players have to learn, it can be fun for some but for others it can be a bit like a trap that forces them to RCR.
Well spoken, this is what i was going for but could not articulate.
Akurion Stormedge - "The Storm"
Druegar Grizzleclaw - The Mountain Ruin Tsar
Akroma Thuul - The Creepy Enchanter
Liliana Duskblade - The B*tch of Bane

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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Sun Wukong » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:48 pm

Both Bear Warrior and Battlerager limit the number of rages you get per day.

Thus if someone makes a Barbarian/Battlerager/Bearwarrior they will want to have as many Extend Rage feats as possible, and if they are not aware of the non-stacking nature of the extend rage feats that these PRCs provide... They can easily mess up their build by wasting feats on Extend Rage I or II. In fact... In order to avoid that you pretty much have to go for the following build, in the exact order:

Barbarian 5/Battlerager 2/Bear Warrior 7 in order to get Extend Rage III at level 15 and Extend Rage VI at level 18.

The Barbarian 15/Battlerager 5/Bear Warrior 10 gets 4 uses of rage per day prior to Extra Rage feat. Since Battlerager gets free Improved Unarmed Strike, you will probably start to think if you should get more Unarmed feats for your Bear Warrior. Thus you probably go for a Barbarian 11/Fighter 4/Battlerager 5/Bear Warrior 10 and grab the Weapon Mastery (Unarmed Feat). But going it this way you have cut down your number of rages down to 3 per day, prior to the Extra Rage feat. Rest timer gets longer and longer, and I can imagine players starting to pull their hairs about this PRC.

So what would stacking Extend Rage feats do? Instead of having Extend Rage VI at level 18, you could have Extend Rage V. The number of rages available will remain the same, it will just last five rounds longer. You still have to use scent and mob gathering to make most out of your bear form rage.

It is just a minor improvement, and it removes a lot of potential rebuilding frustration from the 'newbie' Bear Warrior player.

As for pre-existing Bear Warriors, the few DMs can just offer a quick RCR - or probably just manually give the Bear Warrior character the correct Extend Rage feat.
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.

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mrm3ntalist
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by mrm3ntalist » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:56 pm

Sun Wukong wrote:Both Bear Warrior and Battlerager limit the number of rages you get per day.

Thus if someone makes a Barbarian/Battlerager/Bearwarrior they will want to have as many Extend Rage feats as possible, and if they are not aware of the non-stacking nature of the extend rage feats that these PRCs provide... They can easily mess up their build by wasting feats on Extend Rage I or II. In fact... In order to avoid that you pretty much have to go for the following build, in the exact order:

Barbarian 5/Battlerager 2/Bear Warrior 7 in order to get Extend Rage III at level 15 and Extend Rage VI at level 18.

The Barbarian 15/Battlerager 5/Bear Warrior 10 gets 4 uses of rage per day prior to Extra Rage feat. Since Battlerager gets free Improved Unarmed Strike, you will probably start to think if you should get more Unarmed feats for your Bear Warrior. Thus you probably go for a Barbarian 11/Fighter 4/Battlerager 5/Bear Warrior 10 and grab the Weapon Mastery (Unarmed Feat). But going it this way you have cut down your number of rages down to 3 per day, prior to the Extra Rage feat. Rest timer gets longer and longer, and I can imagine players starting to pull their hairs about this PRC.

So what would stacking Extend Rage feats do? Instead of having Extend Rage VI at level 18, you could have Extend Rage V. The number of rages available will remain the same, it will just last five rounds longer. You still have to use scent and mob gathering to make most out of your bear form rage.

It is just a minor improvement, and it removes a lot of potential rebuilding frustration from the 'newbie' Bear Warrior player.

As for pre-existing Bear Warriors, the few DMs can just offer a quick RCR - or probably just manually give the Bear Warrior character the correct Extend Rage feat.
We considered making the extends feats to stack. Instead of doing that, we boosted the rage duration to begin with - at not extra cost.

Barbarians and any combination of classes and prcs are more than fine at the moment. We wont look into giving them anything more, unless there is something that seriously affects gameplay in a negative way.
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Re: Extended Rage

Unread post by Sun Wukong » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:06 pm

mrm3ntalist wrote:We wont look into giving them anything more, unless there is something that seriously affects gameplay in a negative way.
Well, a newbie messes up their bear warrior build and comes to ask for help, in which case... I'll be the one giving them tips and pointing out how other barbarian builds are better, and then of course Akroma666 will be there to give suggestions on how to improve the PRC itself... Which draws in some QC members there... and so on. :lol:

So how about those things stack, and you do actually reduce quite a bit of the Bear Warrior related 'gameplay' negativity! ;)
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.

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