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 Post subject: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:59 am 
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Pre-amble:
If you don't like meta-info about an area, stop reading right now.


........


I didn't even know this cave/encounter existed until today... and, whew. Yikes! I found the caves with my rogue while putzing around, and thankfully I was in stealth when I wandered through that big ominous looking red barrier :mrgreen:

Knowing full well what would happen if I tried anything on my rogue, I logged on my Monk/Cleric/SF and ran back to give the Lich and Wheeps some love...

First impression: Ouch. Ouch ouch ouch.

After fully warding, and bringing out my Epic Dragon Knight summon to play, I was astounded to see how deadly those Wheeps are. I managed to silence the Lich off the get-go, then ran back out of his line of sight while the Wheeps lay a beating on me. My dragon summon was dead within 20 seconds but, thanks to healing potions and some fire'y fisting, was able to take them down. The Lich didn't try and run out of the silenced zone, otherwise I might have been in real trouble. So, after whomping him(and getting a pile of garbage loot, because... hey, it's only a Lich!) I figured I was in the clear to get the hells out of there. Hah. Haaaaaaaahahahah. Right. All I can say is: thank frick those ancient mummies are so slow :shock: I ran in circles casting everything I had left just, and it all just bounced right off them. Implosion, sunbeam, hammer of the gods... useless. I got one down to half HP, but had to flee because they were smacking me around like a piñata, landing hits on Every. Single. Attack. :lol:

I'm curious... what the hell kind of hit-dice and AB/AC might those Wheeps and Mummies have? And, as a cleric, what should I be using on those mummies? Undeath to death maybe(this is my first time playing an epic cleric)?

This encounter was, quite handily, one of the nastiest and challenging(as well as fun) things I have ever run into on this game. Whoever dreamed up this encounter, kudos... you sadist. lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:29 am 
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Mummies have -50% fire vulnerability. Last time I went in there I firebomb/perfected alchemist fired them to death in no time.

I don't remember the "Wheeps" but I was in there with Hester and she was the one killing everything pretty much (two archers with high DPS)

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 Post subject: Re: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:59 am 
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Summons in the epics are mainly a steady output of damage. They need you to be effective: you need to control the battlefield with disables and heal them when needed, while you instagib key targets before they can become a problem.

There is A LOT an epic caster can do about Undead. Silence on the Lich was a good idea. Alternatively, you can use SR and mantle accordingly, then calmly destroy it.

If you are a caster cleric, depending on your domains, there are a few things you can do against the Mummies. Wall of Fire (I recommend Empowered) is the most cost-effective damage spell against Undead in general, and especially against mummies. If you do not have the Fire Domain, Flame Strike (aim properly!) and Firestorm are also very good. If you are good enough with it, you could also turn them, of course.

If you are feeling particularly wasteful, memorize as many Mass Heals and Heals as you can, and kill them with those. It's not the best use of your spellbook, but it's certainly fun.

I don't know what convinced you to use Implosion against the Undead, but that one only works on living things, so...for your own sake, desist :).

Sunbeam isn't a good idea, because it's an 8th Circle spell and you can't apply metamagic to it. Fire Storm has the same problem, but the mummies' vulnerability to fire kind of "empowers" the spell for you.

Hammer of the Gods is a great control spell. Except the Undead are immune to mind-affecting (like Hammer's daze...), so that won't work. All that's left is its very low damage, and that won't help you in the circumstance.

As for challenge, it's a matter of perspective: the time I happened there (accidentally...), my Wizard deleted the Lich with Undeath to Death, cast two Grease and one Web with two Empowered Wall of Fire spells in the middle, and watched the rest of them die as they tried in vain to hit him (the amount of KD given their horrible reflex save was hilarious).

In absence of specific preparation, I think you've done very well winning the encounter.

Now, try some of the above and watch them wither :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:33 am 
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It has been more than a year or so, I was with some group on my halfling Barbarian/Dragon Slayer, everyone else had trouble... My Halfling just used Northlander Hewing while raging.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:47 am 
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the greater mummies there make me wish for the epic spell: mummy dust every time i go there.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Invoker wrote:
There is A LOT an epic caster can do about Undead. Silence on the Lich was a good idea. Alternatively, you can use SR and mantle accordingly, then calmly destroy it.

If you are a caster cleric, depending on your domains, there are a few things you can do against the Mummies. Wall of Fire (I recommend Empowered) is the most cost-effective damage spell against Undead in general, and especially against mummies. If you do not have the Fire Domain, Flame Strike (aim properly!) and Firestorm are also very good. If you are good enough with it, you could also turn them, of course.


Cleric 16/SF 10/Monk 4 with law and spell domains... SR(for days) and mantles are covered, turning and empowering, not so much :mrgreen: Tried turning undead as soon as I saw the mummies, they didn't even blink. Some of those spells you mention seem very situational, but I really must memorize flame strike at some point. :whistle:

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I don't know what convinced you to use Implosion against the Undead, but that one only works on living things, so...


Erm, I knew that! :? lol.

The character is more of a buff-and-punch type, so I always try to get my AC as high as possible before wading in. Problem is, the wheeps and mummies have insane AB. I think I was at about 45 AC, with greater reflect pain and hilaters misdirection up, and they were just tearing through me. With 30 wisdom, and 40AC unwarded, I'm not sure how to push the AC any higher either(shield of faith, magic vestment, PFE, owls, brooch of shielding[forgot to use that]... am I missing anything?). I figured I'd be able to get this characters AC up in the mid 50's when I thought of the concept, but I might need a gear overhaul to do that.

Whatever the case, I'll try out firestorm and flame strike some time, if my cleric ever decides to go back(not bloody likely!).


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 Post subject: Re: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Lots of solid advice from Invoker.

There are a few things I would add:

Mirror images / displacement are incredibly helpful against the wheeps and Gr. mummies, as is stoneskin. Cloaks can cover the displacement, and boots/roots the stoneskin. You might have to rely on a wand for the mirror images.

Fire is very useful in general when in the Cloud Peaks, for obvious reasons.
Even a perfected alchemists fire applied to a weapon (not sure if this can be done with fists...) can help to boost your damage.
Bless weapon should not be overlooked either!

Last but not least: Try to draw the wheeps out one at a time using ranged weapons.
This will prevent the IKD spam from the pair, and the lich will not chase after you if you do it correctly. Taking them down one at a time really takes the sting out of the fight, leaving more HP/spells/whatever for the mummies.

::Edit:: Gotta add... whoever created this area and encounter, thanks! Great work :)

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 Post subject: Re: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:34 pm 
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with battletide you should be able to move away from the mummies without them giving you too much of a hard time. can use the island in the middle of their spawn area to get them going one way then "KC shuffle" around the other side to freedom.

sometimes the best strat in a fight is to just run. usually what i do when i dont have a toon that can grease-incendary cloud them to death.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Snarfy wrote:
Cleric 16/SF 10/Monk 4


I'm curious why you chose this split. CL28 and 2d6 fist damage...

Consider you could have gone C17/SF10/M3 for CL29 while still having 2d6 fist damage I'm not sure why you went for Monk 4 since BAB doesn't matter with Divine Power.

Also could have gone for C10/M6/SF10/Hierophant 4 which would still have CL28 (with SP 1 and 2), but increase damage to 2d8. Finally could go C9/M3/SF10/H8 which would have full caster level and 2d6 damage.

this isn't a critique so much as just wondering if I am missing something behind your leveling split, so no worries if the answer is simply "because I wanted it this way". 0:)

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 Post subject: Re: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:15 pm 
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chad878262 wrote:
I'm curious why you chose this split. CL28 and 2d6 fist damage...

Consider you could have gone C17/SF10/M3 for CL29 while still having 2d6 fist damage I'm not sure why you went for Monk 4 since BAB doesn't matter with Divine Power.


You seem to be operating under the assumption that I know what I'm doing when building a cleric... joke's on you! :lol: I think I went monk 4 for ki-strike magic, and for RP reasons. Oh, and also, because I wanted it this way. :dance:

aaron22 wrote:
with battletide you should be able to move away from the mummies without them giving you too much of a hard time. can use the island in the middle of their spawn area to get them going one way then "KC shuffle" around the other side to freedom.


Yep, that island saved my arse. *grumbles and goes to make room for extended battletide*

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~ snip ~


I think I used stone body to counter the KD spam, but yeah... displacements/mirror images would have helped. I don't see bless weapon in the cleric spell book, and I'm not sure about the alchemists fire working on gloves either. Even then, my SF's fiery fists weren't doing much fire damage. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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 Post subject: Re: Cloudpeak caves encounter
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:34 pm 
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bless weapon is a pali spell available on wands

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