Orc Blood Magus build

[Lanzlo]

Any good orcish blood magus builds out there that I can attempt? this seems like a good concept, and I don't like making characters without knowing how I'm going to build them in the higher levels. Even if I change the concept, I like to know the base that I'm starting from.

[aaron22]

if you want to be a follower of an orc god:
W6/BM6/AM8/AS10

if you want to be a follower of shar:
W6/BM6/AM8/SA10

do not concern yourself that grey orcs have -2 int... you will still kill everything.

[chad878262]

if you want to be a follower of an orc god:
W6/BM6/AM8/AS10

Would be better as W10/PM10/BM4/AM6. Arcane Scholar is nice, but not really needed. BM4 avoids CL penalty at 5 so with Practiced Caster you are CL32 (Archmage), 33 with Blood Component. If you don't need the bonus feat at W10 you could go W5/PM10/AM8/BM7. CL32 still (29 + 3 from spell power 1, 2, 3), CL35 when using Blood Component and Blood Seeking Spell. Pale Master gives a lot of defensive power and about the best summon you can get for the cost of one feat (Practiced Spellcaster). In my opinion this would be far better than Arcane Scholar...

if you want to be a follower of shar:
W6/BM6/AM8/SA10

Remember that Shadow Adept will require DM approval so you'll need a solid IC backstory for your Orcish Sharran. From a pure power perspective would be better going W10/BM7/AM10/SA3. The +2 DC's is really the best/most important part of Shadow Adept so getting the extra feat from W10 is generally going to be better than what you get from additional Shadow Adept levels CL = 29 + 3 (AM) + 3 (Blood Seeking Spell) = 35 on top of +2 DCs to illusion, enchantment and necromancy.

Honestly though it's pretty difficult to screw up a DC wizard so long as you know what school you are focusing on and really put your full focus in to increasing DCs.

[aaron22]

Would be better as W10/PM10/BM4/AM6

i disagree. PM is nice for defense and all, but with BM6 instead of 4 you gain 3CLs at the cost of 1. i personally prefer the versatility of the AS over the defense of the PM in this set up. defense is something you learn to use as a wizard with spells. not with armor. AM to 8 gives you a little more room to power up your build without considering sacrafices.

From a pure power perspective would be better going W10/BM7/AM10/SA3

while i did consider this build as well. i looked at the bonuses that SA to 10 gave and decided that they culminate to much more than a single feat from W. but made close by the additional AM feat. so yea. toss up to me.

my build had enough feats to put in a PS for the single CL. not sure if that still messes up builds though.

[chad878262]

i disagree. PM is nice for defense and all, but with BM6 instead of 4 you gain 3CLs at the cost of 1. i personally prefer the versatility of the AS over the defense of the PM in this set up. defense is something you learn to use as a wizard with spells. not with armor. AM to 8 gives you a little more room to power up your build without considering sacrafices.

Quicken Spell is useful for a DC Caster, Empower and Maximize not so much (though not useless, of course). Arcane Scholar also requires you to take Empower spell and two skill focuses. You then need Toughness for Blood Mage and two spell focus feats. That's 6 feats out of 8 you get pre-epic. Assuming you take Prodigy at 1 you're left with only one feat and need to chose from GSF or Practiced Caster. Not much room for error in the build. Pale Master has zero feat requirements...just need to take practiced caster for full CL progression. You still need Skill Focus: Spellcraft for archmage, but no need for empower or concentration, thus it's a net gain of one feat.

hile i did consider this build as well. i looked at the bonuses that SA to 10 gave and decided that they culminate to much more than a single feat from W. but made close by the additional AM feat. so yea. toss up to me.

my build had enough feats to put in a PS for the single CL. not sure if that still messes up builds though.

The W10 feat is an epic feat, giving you a total of 6 (21, 23, 25, 27, 29 and W10) Four Great INT's, ESF and one Epic Spell. It makes a difference, that's why I said it was better to go for W10. Even if you only need 3 Great INT's you can have 2 epic spells which is better than the stuff Shadow Adept gives over and above the +2 DC's.


As I said, this stuff is really minor in the grand scheme of things. If you are making a DC caster (even on a -2 INT race) you are still going to be one of the top builds for PvE (maybe not for grinding, but a strong boss killer) and PvP. It really is more about player skill than it is about your build.

[aaron22]

BM1 gives skill focus concentrate

overall good points chad as always. i think play styles might come into play a little here. or maybe i am just wrong. could be.

one question on the BM4/PM10 though....

can you pin prick your bone skin?

[chad878262]

one question on the BM4/PM10 though....

can you pin prick your bone skin?

Marrow component...

[Sun Wukong]

Any good orcish blood magus builds out there that I can attempt? this seems like a good concept, and I don't like making characters without knowing how I'm going to build them in the higher levels. Even if I change the concept, I like to know the base that I'm starting from.

Goodly aligned or just mechanically good?

Now, were I to make one... I would probably go for the following:

Cleric 3 (Divine Shield to get charisma to AC)/Sorcerer 8 (Charisma based Spell Casting)/Blood Magus 9 (Infusion for +2 Constitution)/Red Dragon Disciple 10 (+2 to STR, CON, INT, and CHA.)

As for feats, I would aim for both Augment Form to improve your BAB when shapechanged into a Red Dragon and Fast Healing II or III to gain some regeneration while you are at it.

I think I made a thread about this build before... Ah yes, here it is: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=64722

Luthic would be a good deity to pick, because it allows you to grab the Earth domain for a free Toughness feat.

[aaron22]

OK.. so if the player really wants to take BM to 10 would the best set up be W10/BM10/AM10 and omit the AS or PM?

this gives CL 36 and 6 epic feats.
can start at 15 int and go 7 plus 4 to end at 26 (30 w/ +4 hat). but can have higher starting stats like 3 more pts to put in con and dex.
can start at 16 int and go 7 plus 5 for the same 32 ending int without an epic spell
or can start at 16 int and go 7 plus 3 for two epic spells with a int 2 points lower back to 30.

get 5 AM feats which can be
CL+3 plus two SLAs
or CL +3 plus one SLA and MoS.

just trying to figure out an optimized version with BM to 10

edit: fixed bad math

[wurdpass]

I think youre on target, dipping into PM or ASoC isnt better than the epic wizard feat.

The only thing I havent seen mentioned in here yet would be a tincan Autostill Dragonslayer. Probably 10 W/5 DS / 5 SA / 10 BM

Barely accomplishable with pre epic feats it trades costs a lot of DC/Int to add Spell Pen, Tumble, saves and lots of AC.

Certainly not a better caster than 10/10/10, but does have some merit I think

[aaron22]

gish building is a whole other bag of worms... BM to 3 is the most i would do..

[Lanzlo]

Yeah, so far W 10/BM 10/AM 10 seems like the build.

Building as W-> 5, BM ->7, AM ->6, BM ->10, AM ->10, W ->10.

AM Arcana of SLA-DDoor, Master of Shaping, Spell Power I, II, and III.

Epic feats of Great Intellect I to V and Vampiric Feast

That leaves three feats open. (Took Spellcasting Prodigy at 1st) Level 12, 15, and 18. Any decent suggestions for a power hungry, blood thirsty orc caster?

[Sputnik]

Extend magic feat is almost a must for a wizard. This would be my first suggestion.

For the remaining feats...

Combat Expertise and Improved Combat Expertise will add +3/+6 to your AC, respectively.
Alternately, you can go with Empower magic, and Maximize magic.

Are you going for more survivability, or raw destructive power?

[Lanzlo]

Raw destructive power. You have no need for defense when your enemies are dead.

[chad878262]

You are building a DC Caster making Empower and Maximize less useful than they might otherwise be. I would argue Quicken is a much stronger selection. Quicken Grease followed by Acid Cloud followed by Undeath to Death is a really nice way to lay hate on a certain Undead boss and his/her cronies in the low-mid epics... For a DC caster I would actually say Quicken is the most important metamagic, even above Extend.