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 Post subject: Re: Torch Magic and Walking Sticks
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:51 am 
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Hoihe wrote:
I am pretty sure OOCly claiming that another player's character is brandishing a weapon, while their player RPs it as carrying it non-threateningly breaks the rule of "Don't godmod others' PCs."

A: * I see Hoihe's character approach while brandishing a deadly weapon. * - - - ' I do not think I like the way you are brandishing that weapon of yours. Please, put it down. '

H: * Hoihe's character does not put his weapon down. * - - - ' I am not brandishing it, I am using it as a walking stick! ' - - - * Hoihe's character is literally holding that "walking stick" in a manner where it would only provide support if his character was cought between two invisible walls. ( Like in that trash container scene from the first Star Wars movie. ) *

A: * I have my character equip his own weapon. * - - - ' I would advice you to put it down, or walk back the way you came from, I have no time or care for the whims of petty bandits. '

H: * Hoihe's character does not put his weapon down, he does not walk away. * - - - ' IT IS A WALKING STICK! '

A: * I toggle Hoihe's character hostile, attack, and send him to his starting location. *

H: /// * Whining and insults that I will not reproduce here. * ///

A: /// If you really need a visual aid for a walking stick, may I suggest a Lantern Stick? It is basically a torch with a very long shaft that reaches the ground and a lantern that provides illumination. You can buy one from Sorcerous Sundries. When you walk with it, it actually looks like you are using a walking stick for support! Well, more so than with a quarterstaff that is held horizontally at your character's waist. It is what I use on my Gnomish Arcane Trickster to give her a quarterstaff. ///

H: /// * More whining and insults that I will not reproduce here. * ///

A: /// * Whining and insults responded in kind, which I will not reproduce here, and Hoihe was added to my "No Roleplay List". * ///

This all took place many years ago, back when Hoihe's character was the moustached dragon enthusiast. But few weeks later after the event I did ask Hoihe's character about that "walking stick" of his, and he went on to state how much he liked the EXTRA BONUS SLOTS on it. :lol:

The people who insist to be allowed to brandish weapons are not doing it for visual aids or for an actual role-playing reason, they are doing it purely for in game mechanical advantage. This fact has not changed over the years, and it is unlikely to change in the future.


vindflickan wrote:
Sooooo...with the addition of umbrellas, I only just learned about the ability to modify the appearance of torches. I like all the banners and little things in the appearance change for them as they're quite cool, but it makes me wonder if it might be possible to include a model or models for canes or a walking stick? Goodness knows there are older characters and, in the case of my own character, characters with wounds that impair their movement where it would make a nice visual prop for them to have something helping support their weight.

I have nothing against a simple long stick in the torch appearances. One that is long enough to constantly clip into the ground when held. The Lantern Stick we have in game could be used as a reference.

But due to height at which torches are held in game, I do not think it will work all that well with canes.

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 Post subject: Re: Torch Magic and Walking Sticks
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:36 am 
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Your OOC description of brandishing still remains godmodding of actions, and we are awfully limited in animations as it is.

If a player makes an emote describing a lore-friendly, non-godmodding, physics compliant emote that clashes with the animations the game engine provides without requiring rolls to be done, then the player's statement is absolute.

If the emote might break physics, or require a roll - then make the appropriate roll. The roll decides. For instance, using make up to disguise oneself. We have a skill for that - if that skill roll passes, then it's the law. if it fails, it's the law.

Mechanically, the button is called "Equip." No description of hostile intent presented here.

Furthermore, where the hell would you put a staff, a greatsword or a pike? Back-scabbards kind of don't exist. Closest approximation is a rifle sling, and that still semi-occupies a hand. However, historically we have no records of riflesling style scabbards. We do have records of cradling a greatsword to carry it however.

Refer to the image below.

Image

Furthermore, if we're being anal about stuff... Where is the sword when it is unequipped? If you insist that the standard walking stick animation cannot be interpreted as anything but your Word of God, then you must also insist that an item, that has no visual representation, does not exist and the player cannot emote its existence.

Furthermore, I guess all our characters suck at swordfighting, and use them as clubs and piurette props. Animations are word of god folk!

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 Post subject: Re: Torch Magic and Walking Sticks
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:15 am 
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A staff was used as a walking stick historically. A quarterstaff was a weapon/walking stick. This was a weapon of choice for peasants who could not legally nor monetarily afford a sword. Often times it was a stick so "sheathing" it would involve dropping it on the ground. "Drawing" it would involve picking a nice stick up off the ground at a nearby tree. Greatswords of all sorts were sheathed by wrapping in clothe and carrying on a pack animal. These were weapons of war much like Spears, pikes, halberds etc. They we're rarely if ever carried by lone travelers. All that said and this is a fantasy setting. Guards know about monks and wizards. They know not to let you brandish a quarterstaff in town and would react. A gnome somewhere probably invented a sheath for your quarterstaff and greatswords.

I hope canes, full staffs (staves?), and walking sticks are added to a non weapon with more accurate animations.

Edit: I just remembered there is a backpack model in game with a quarterstaff on it! So, there you go.

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Last edited by AlwaysSummer Day on Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Torch Magic and Walking Sticks
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:32 am 
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Hoihe wrote:
Your OOC description of brandishing still remains godmodding of actions, and we are awfully limited in animations as it is.

How about you take a step back and re-read the whole thing. Because I can ask one very simple rhetorical question: What gives you the right to decide my character's reaction on your character's actions? Perhaps it might be reasonable to ask you to tone down your god-modding before you accuse others of it.

Hoihe wrote:
If a player makes an emote describing a lore-friendly, non-godmodding, physics compliant emote that clashes with the animations the game engine provides without requiring rolls to be done, then the player's statement is absolute.

Go on, brandish your quarterstaffs in front of a guard NPC and see how absolute your player statements are. Poor form role-play is just poor form role-play. Poor form role-play tends to lean towards the direction of god-modding.

Hoihe wrote:
If the emote might break physics, or require a roll - then make the appropriate roll. The roll decides. For instance, using make up to disguise oneself. We have a skill for that - if that skill roll passes, then it's the law. if it fails, it's the law.

I am a big fan of those proper D&D rolls and difficulty checks. But while a player can roll and ask another player to play along, I would like to remind how only Dungeon Masters can enforce skill roll results. Therefore, you cannot expect, or even demand other players to follow the results of your dice rolls. If you do it, I would like to know what makes you think that it is different to god-modding.

Hoihe wrote:
Mechanically, the button is called "Equip." No description of hostile intent presented here.

Did you know that one of the definitions to the word "equip" is as follows:
    - to furnish with intellectual or emotional resources; prepare.

Here is the example of its use:
    - Education and travel have equipped her to deal with all sorts of people.

Thus, when you "equip" a weapon in game, you basically prepare yourself to deal with all manner of adventuring threats and dangers.

Hoihe wrote:
Furthermore, where the hell would you put a staff, a greatsword or a pike? Back-scabbards kind of don't exist. Closest approximation is a rifle sling, and that still semi-occupies a hand. However, historically we have no records of riflesling style scabbards. We do have records of cradling a greatsword to carry it however...

And once again this entirely moot point gets repeated because you have nothing else to say.

When you "unequip" that weapon of your choice, you are still carrying it on your person and the exact method of it does not exactly matter in the slightest.

When you "equip" that weapon of your choice, you are now wielding it in a manner that enables you to use it in order to inflict harm on others.

Hoihe wrote:
Furthermore, if we're being anal about stuff...




That is actual in game footage of a player doing some 'Tightrope Walking' in order to gain mechanical advantage over other players. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Torch Magic and Walking Sticks
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:02 am 
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Sun Wukong wrote:
Hoihe wrote:
Your OOC description of brandishing still remains godmodding of actions, and we are awfully limited in animations as it is.

How about you take a step back and re-read the whole thing. Because I can ask one very simple rhetorical question: What gives you the right to decide my character's reaction on your character's actions? Perhaps it might be reasonable to ask you to tone down your god-modding before you accuse others of it.

Hoihe wrote:
If a player makes an emote describing a lore-friendly, non-godmodding, physics compliant emote that clashes with the animations the game engine provides without requiring rolls to be done, then the player's statement is absolute.

Go on, brandish your quarterstaffs in front of a guard NPC and see how absolute your player statements are. Poor form role-play is just poor form role-play. Poor form role-play tends to lean towards the direction of god-modding.

Hoihe wrote:
If the emote might break physics, or require a roll - then make the appropriate roll. The roll decides. For instance, using make up to disguise oneself. We have a skill for that - if that skill roll passes, then it's the law. if it fails, it's the law.

I am a big fan of those proper D&D rolls and difficulty checks. But while a player can roll and ask another player to play along, I would like to remind how only Dungeon Masters can enforce skill roll results. Therefore, you cannot expect, or even demand other players to follow the results of your dice rolls. If you do it, I would like to know what makes you think that it is different to god-modding.

Hoihe wrote:
Mechanically, the button is called "Equip." No description of hostile intent presented here.

Did you know that one of the definitions to the word "equip" is as follows:
    - to furnish with intellectual or emotional resources; prepare.

Here is the example of its use:
    - Education and travel have equipped her to deal with all sorts of people.

Thus, when you "equip" a weapon in game, you basically prepare yourself to deal with all manner of adventuring threats and dangers.

Hoihe wrote:
Furthermore, where the hell would you put a staff, a greatsword or a pike? Back-scabbards kind of don't exist. Closest approximation is a rifle sling, and that still semi-occupies a hand. However, historically we have no records of riflesling style scabbards. We do have records of cradling a greatsword to carry it however...

And once again this entirely moot point gets repeated because you have nothing else to say.

When you "unequip" that weapon of your choice, you are still carrying it on your person and the exact method of it does not exactly matter in the slightest.

When you "equip" that weapon of your choice, you are now wielding it in a manner that enables you to use it in order to inflict harm on others.

Hoihe wrote:
Furthermore, if we're being anal about stuff...




That is actual in game footage of a player doing some 'Tightrope Walking' in order to gain mechanical advantage over other players. :lol:



Normal player:*Stands, holding a staff non-threateningly while looking at a bunch of insects*

Simian: *Alarmed by the person brandishing a weapon at them, they draw a sword*

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 Post subject: Re: Torch Magic and Walking Sticks
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:10 am 
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the character models are only a small insight to the actual of what should be seen by the players. an examine or /// i am using the staff as a walking stick// is totally viable.

the models are limited.. the imagination of the player base is not. lets be cooperative and worry about having fun.. not nit picking each other's models.

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 Post subject: Re: Torch Magic and Walking Sticks
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:21 am 
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Quote:
Quarterstaffs disallowed in cities
Quarterstaffs are considered as weapons regarding city rules and Flaming Fist patrols.


Not sure why this is even a debate at this point?. DMs decreed quarter staff as a weapon, so the only god modding is if you have it equip in the city. if you have the weapon in you main hand slot you are brandishing it, if you don't you are not. Welcome to the limitations of nwn2 game engine. Real world definitions are irreverent.

Quote:
Sooooo...with the addition of umbrellas, I only just learned about the ability to modify the appearance of torches. I like all the banners and little things in the appearance change for them as they're quite cool, but it makes me wonder if it might be possible to include a model or models for canes or a walking stick? Goodness knows there are older characters and, in the case of my own character, characters with wounds that impair their movement where it would make a nice visual prop for them to have something helping support their weight.


The limitation here is pretty much the animations. Animations are tied into weapon type. So you wouldn't really be able to make it act like a walking stick without making torches act differently. A special kind of staff could be made but it would just stand up straight and do little else.

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 Post subject: Re: Torch Magic and Walking Sticks
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:54 am 
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This topic has run it's course.

The animations are the issue here, not the items.

Thank you for your participation.

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